Ronaldo=Fabregas>>>>>>>Rooney, Robinho,

What do you mean when you say 'naturally gifted' though? sure they ability a player is a composite of all their attributes and not just say their flair, dribbling and technique

I remember Ronaldo's 1st game for us. A skinny guy who fucking dazzled much more experienced proffesionals in both teams. He stole the show completely.

Rooney on his debut for us scored a hattrick. Left footed, right foot, free kick. That is a dazzling display. Robinho debut for Madrid and indeed for Santos wasn't that hot.

I think that is the best gauge of natural talent. How they do on their debuts. Minus the experience that comes along the way.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6zl3nXd9oIo&feature=bz302

Raifael wrote:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6zl3nXd9oIo&feature=bz302

Not one of his better games IMO. Too eager to score and was getting wound up throughout.

robert wrote:I remember Ronaldo's 1st game for us. A skinny guy who fucking dazzled much more experienced proffesionals in both teams. He stole the show completely.

Rooney on his debut for us scored a hattrick. Left footed, right foot, free kick. That is a dazzling display. Robinho debut for Madrid and indeed for Santos wasn't that hot.

I think that is the best gauge of natural talent. How they do on their debuts. Minus the experience that comes along the way.

100% wrong. His debut was a 20 minute appearance against Cadiz where turned the match from a 1-0 defeat to a 2-1 win for Madrid. Those 20 minutes were the only time I was worried that Madrid had really bought a guy who was as good as Ronaldinho. Everyone who watched that game went crazy, and the papers were beside themselves in hype. Since then however, Robinho has been someone to ignore until the past month or so.

So if your last sentence is taken to be true (and I disagree because I think it's silly saying a player's debut is a true judge of their ability), then Robinho should be equally good as Rooney and better than Ronaldo.

Owen wrote:

Raifael wrote:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6zl3nXd9oIo&feature=bz302

Not one of his better games IMO. Too eager to score and was getting wound up throughout.

You can’t blame him he was in countless positions where he could have penetrated the opposition, its was all confounding.

Yes rza Robinho has played well recently, probably his best spell in the last 3 years, even still Rooney's last 10 performances have been better than Robinho's

This ability thing is a bit mad, i aint sure why Robinho seems to have more ability to some people? I think he's smaller and weaker therefore everything he does looks more natural and smooth, but thats all i can see. Ronaldo imo is the most talented then robinho then rooney then cesc.

In terms of the best players then ronaldo > cesc > rooney > robinho

Tweedle wrote:What do you mean when you say 'naturally gifted' though? sure they ability a player is a composite of all their attributes and not just say their flair, dribbling and technique

Possibility. Though Ronaldinho wasn't WPOTY because he could head a ball, or because he was physically strong. He was WPOTY because he was doing things like few, if any were capable of. Likewise with Zidane & Ronaldo.

Robinho is capable of doing things that most other players wouldn't even attempt. His talent is remarkable.

kas wrote:

robert wrote:I remember Ronaldo's 1st game for us. A skinny guy who fucking dazzled much more experienced proffesionals in both teams. He stole the show completely.

Rooney on his debut for us scored a hattrick. Left footed, right foot, free kick. That is a dazzling display. Robinho debut for Madrid and indeed for Santos wasn't that hot.

I think that is the best gauge of natural talent. How they do on their debuts. Minus the experience that comes along the way.

100% wrong. His debut was a 20 minute appearance against Cadiz where turned the match from a 1-0 defeat to a 2-1 win for Madrid. Those 20 minutes were the only time I was worried that Madrid had really bought a guy who was as good as Ronaldinho. Everyone who watched that game went crazy, and the papers were beside themselves in hype. Since then however, Robinho has been someone to ignore until the past month or so.

So if your last sentence is taken to be true (and I disagree because I think it's silly saying a player's debut is a true judge of their ability), then Robinho should be equally good as Rooney and better than Ronaldo.

Ronaldo turned a 1-goal nervous game where we were looking like we were going to concede into a 4-1 win. So I would argue the impact was quite simillar to Rooney.

Also in terms of natural talent it depends on where your definition of natural talent lies. Rooney has always been better than Ronaldo at seeing the game, do you constitute that as natural talent? It served him well on his debut.

Either way I consider their impacts on their debuts quite simillar.

I said its a guage I didnt say it was a definitive measure of anything because some people grow into roles. I just tried to use it as one measure of measuring natural talent.

I saw Robinho's debut, pretty good game but I don't think as good as Rooney's and Ronaldo. I remember 3 big things from that game, the time he recieved the ball and tipped it past the cadiz player at around the halfway line. I also remember the mazy dribble into the box in which he put the ball into Ronaldo's feet who consequently turned and hit the bar and finally I remember the chest control and layoff to an rushing Ronaldo who took the ball off his feet and then run into the box and fed Raul for the tap in.

IMO not as big an impact.

Calidad wrote:

Tweedle wrote:What do you mean when you say 'naturally gifted' though? sure they ability a player is a composite of all their attributes and not just say their flair, dribbling and technique

Possibility. Though Ronaldinho wasn't WPOTY because he could head a ball, or because he was physically strong. He was WPOTY because he was doing things like few, if any were capable of. Likewise with Zidane & Ronaldo.

Robinho is capable of doing things that most other players wouldn't even attempt. His talent is remarkable.

Yeh, they wouldn't attempt it because its daft and doesn't work!

RVP attempts things that many others wounldn't, but you don't hear many touting him as a WPOTY candidate

Calidad wrote:
Robinho is capable of doing things that most other players wouldn't even attempt. His talent is remarkable.

Im glad u said this. Ronaldo does dribbling moves that i see every matchday in South Africa, and his stepovers are nowhere near Robinhos. Did u see that stepover he did in the 18"area, when he pretended he was cutting in only to pull the ball to the outside and then make a shot. The defender was so embarassed. That move rank above Van Persie's move (goal) against Inter in the preseason and Mancini goal against Lyon.

I disagree that Rooney has been better than Robinho lately. Robinho has been good since Copa America, hell he dominated that tournament, no offence to Riquelme and Castillo, and he's got a winner's medal. He has been as good for Real this season as Zidane was in his heydays, and of course he deserves accolades.

Let me explain the Rooney irony to people so they can understand. Rooney is not a special player, he's just a special finisher in the mould of Crespo and Inzaghi. And u never heard Crespo and Inzaghi being tipped to be best players in the world. Rooney is not a Van Persie, he scores goals that u'll expect him to score and i don't remember him scoring a goal that was out of this world this season. We don't think players like that are best players in the world, if we did then McCarthy would rank up there.

People will think maybe i don't like Rooney, but he's not special like Messi, Aguero, Robinho, Ronaldo, Ibra, Ronaldinho, Van Persie, etc and that's nothing to be ashamed of. He doesn't drive the team, he's not the main player in the team, he needs other players to play well.

Could somebody post a link for his goals this season so we can see if they have been special, compared to the players i mentioned. I don't remember us talking about any of Rooney's goals this season, but i remember talking about Ibra's, Van Persie, Cesc, Aguero, Messi and now Robinho.

Maybe people are not aware of this by now, by when it comes to awards La Liga and Serie A are ranked above EPL. Meaning a player from EPL needs to perform better, not similar, than players from La Liga and Serie A to win awards. Ronaldo is behind Robinho, Ibra, Messi, Aguero and Cesc this season already so how is he gonna win awards?

Then people will come in and say voters are hating on EPL.

I'm sorry, did you just compare Mancini's goal against Lyon with RVP's one against Inter?

When Mancini does stepovers it looks like my Granny trying to straddle my Grandfather's C0ck - its plain embarassing.

Oh, and your comments about Rooney are complete and utter bullshit

He's not a goalscorer! He's a creative forward. Comparing him to Inzaghi is quite frankly laughable! He's a very good passer of the ball, very creative as well. Did you not see he assist for Tevez a couple of weeks ago?

Also, to say he doesn't score spectacular goals is even more laughable. I'm just not going to go there...

Tweedle wrote:I'm sorry, did you just compare Mancini's goal against Lyon with RVP's one against Inter?

When Mancini does stepovers it looks like my Granny trying to straddle my Grandfather's C0ck - its plain embarassing.

That was a very good goal, and we talked about it the whole day. I don't remember we talk about ur granny's stepovers.

rza wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I'm sorry, did you just compare Mancini's goal against Lyon with RVP's one against Inter?

When Mancini does stepovers it looks like my Granny trying to straddle my Grandfather's C0ck - its plain embarassing.

That was a very good goal, and we talked about it the whole day. I don't remember we talk about ur granny's stepovers.

Mancini is a great player, but hios stepovers are embarassingly wooden. Stepovers aren't everything though. Ronaldo has done some fantastic skills - he quite often does the 'dinho' lookng the other way and passing skill and he does the rotunda quite often too, and the sideheel pass.

Tweedle wrote:Oh, and your comments about Rooney are complete and utter bullshit

He's not a goalscorer! He's a creative forward. Comparing him to Inzaghi is quite frankly laughable! He's a very good passer of the ball, very creative as well. Did you not see he assist for Tevez a couple of weeks ago?

Also, to say he doesn't score spectacular goals is even more laughable. I'm just not going to go there...

I just asked u to mention a goal Rooney scored this season that's worth noting.

Rooney is a good player, but we have to be honest to say that he's just not in the same league as the other guys i mentioned. He's in my top 5 clinical finishers still playing though.

He's not clinical though! Far from it. In fact, its one of the worst areas of his game.

This season, he hasn't scored many spectacular goals but in the EPL he has two goal of the seasons - 2 in 5 seasons. That's pretty impressive.

Tweedle wrote:

rza wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I'm sorry, did you just compare Mancini's goal against Lyon with RVP's one against Inter?

When Mancini does stepovers it looks like my Granny trying to straddle my Grandfather's C0ck - its plain embarassing.

That was a very good goal, and we talked about it the whole day. I don't remember we talk about ur granny's stepovers.

Mancini is a great player, but hios stepovers are embarassingly wooden. Stepovers aren't everything though. Ronaldo has done some fantastic skills - he quite often does the 'dinho' lookng the other way and passing skill and he does the rotunda quite often too, and the sideheel pass.

It's not about stepovers, it's about the goal. Give credit to Mancini, that goal was superb and it's not far from Van Persie's, actually some people might argue that Mancini's was better.

'Some' as in Italians :K:

It was in fact a better goal, because it was in a competitive game that really mattered whereas RVP's was in a friendly, but the skill RVP did was phenomenal. I see stepovers every week but what RVP did I don't think I'd seen before

rza wrote:


Let me explain the Rooney irony to people so they can understand. Rooney is not a special player, he's just a special finisher in the mould of Crespo and Inzaghi. And u never heard Crespo and Inzaghi being tipped to be best players in the world. Rooney is not a Van Persie, he scores goals that u'll expect him to score and i don't remember him scoring a goal that was out of this world this season. We don't think players like that are best players in the world, if we did then McCarthy would rank up there.

People will think maybe i don't like Rooney, but he's not special like Messi, Aguero, Robinho, Ronaldo, Ibra, Ronaldinho, Van Persie, etc and that's nothing to be ashamed of. He doesn't drive the team, he's not the main player in the team, he needs other players to play well.

:

comparing rooney to inzaghi is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here


Rza just gets better and better

Tweedle wrote:'Some' as in Italians :K:

It was in fact a better goal, because it was in a competitive game that really mattered whereas RVP's was in a friendly, but the skill RVP did was phenomenal. I see stepovers every week but what RVP did I don't think I'd seen before

I would personally rank Van Persie's goal ahead of Mancini's, but it doesn't mean we should now say Mancini's goal wasn't very good.

Tweede, special players leave u speechless whenever they are on form, and Rooney doesn't leave me much speechless as compared to the others. Even u would agree.

I wouldn't agree. Rooney has done many things that have left me speechless. He's not a flair player in the sense that he won't do tricks like Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, but he's still a technically gifted player - he can shoot from distance as well as the best of them, he's got great vision to pick out a pass and link up with one twos.

Surely you've seen some of his goals from BEFORE this season? His goals against Bolton, Newecastle, Middlesbrough and Arsenal (when he was at Everton) are probably the standout goals of his career.

@RZA

Rooney hasnt scored a brilliant goal last season, but since his screamer against Arsenal he has scored so many amazing goals.

The other players (Messi/Zlatan) have scored amazing running goals, but they havent scored any long range goals as good as Rooneys volleys against Newcastle/Boro.

I am starting to wonder if you have actually ever watched Rooney play as he is nothing like Crespo or Inzaghi. His finishing in front of goal isnt the best, its only this season he has started really scoring strikers goals. Previously it was claimed Rooney was a scorer of great goals and not a great goal scorer.

Check out his finest goals, I dont think the others have scored AS many good goals as him. Also he was 16/17 when he scored some of those goals for Everton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuL1LUrOL5w

And here is another great video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvrcQcL-d4

Tweedle wrote:I wouldn't agree. Rooney has done many things that have left me speechless. He's not a flair player in the sense that he won't do tricks like Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, but he's still a technically gifted player - he can shoot from distance as well as the best of them, he's got great vision to pick out a pass and link up with one twos.

Surely you've seen some of his goals from BEFORE this season? His goals against Bolton, Newecastle, Middlesbrough and Arsenal (when he was at Everton) are probably the standout goals of his career.

As i said, he leaves me speechless sometimes, like he did to u last season. Ronaldo leaves me speechless 1 out of 2 games, same as Van Persie. Cesc does that 1.5 out of 2 games. I hope u now understand my point.

COTR wrote:

rza wrote:


Let me explain the Rooney irony to people so they can understand. Rooney is not a special player, he's just a special finisher in the mould of Crespo and Inzaghi. And u never heard Crespo and Inzaghi being tipped to be best players in the world. Rooney is not a Van Persie, he scores goals that u'll expect him to score and i don't remember him scoring a goal that was out of this world this season. We don't think players like that are best players in the world, if we did then McCarthy would rank up there.

People will think maybe i don't like Rooney, but he's not special like Messi, Aguero, Robinho, Ronaldo, Ibra, Ronaldinho, Van Persie, etc and that's nothing to be ashamed of. He doesn't drive the team, he's not the main player in the team, he needs other players to play well.

:

comparing rooney to inzaghi is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here


Rza just gets better and better

I found it funny as I thought he was on the wind up, but then I realised he was being serious

rza wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I wouldn't agree. Rooney has done many things that have left me speechless. He's not a flair player in the sense that he won't do tricks like Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, but he's still a technically gifted player - he can shoot from distance as well as the best of them, he's got great vision to pick out a pass and link up with one twos.

Surely you've seen some of his goals from BEFORE this season? His goals against Bolton, Newecastle, Middlesbrough and Arsenal (when he was at Everton) are probably the standout goals of his career.

As i said, he leaves me speechless sometimes, like he did to u last season. Ronaldo leaves me speechless 1 out of 2 games, same as Van Persie. Cesc does that 1.5 out of 2 games. I hope u now understand my point.

Mate watch the youtube videos I posted, I am starting to think that you are either the new Otto or you havent seen Rooney play.

Rez wrote:@RZA

Rooney hasnt scored a brilliant goal last season, but since his screamer against Arsenal he has scored so many amazing goals.

The other players (Messi/Zlatan) have scored amazing running goals, but they havent scored any long range goals as good as Rooneys volleys against Newcastle/Boro.

I am starting to wonder if you have actually ever watched Rooney play as he is nothing like Crespo or Inzaghi. His finishing in front of goal isnt the best, its only this season he has started really scoring strikers goals. Previously it was claimed Rooney was a scorer of great goals and not a great goal scorer.

Check out his finest goals, I dont think the others have scored AS many good goals as him. Also he was 16/17 when he scored some of those goals for Everton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuL1LUrOL5w

And here is another great video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvrcQcL-d4

Kolo Toure scores long range goals, Lampard used to as well, and Beckham was good with volleys. I'm sure what this means.

People have been saying that Rooney was good as youngster, but pity we have never seen that Rooney again. The Rooney that is the best (or one of) player in the world is Rooney that played against France in Euro 04, before he got injured. If that Rooney suffaces again, then he will undoubtely be better than guys i mentioned. He hussled his way past defenders, he pushed his teamates to the limit, he inspired everyone, and he scored good goals.

Is he the same guy?

Rza,

I'm all for the Cesc and RVP praising, don't get me wrong But Rooney is presently better than RVP IMO.

rza wrote:

Calidad wrote:
Robinho is capable of doing things that most other players wouldn't even attempt. His talent is remarkable.

Im glad u said this. Ronaldo does dribbling moves that i see every matchday in South Africa, and his stepovers are nowhere near Robinhos

This, my honourable friend, is where I stopped reading and started
laughing.

Course Rooney is going to look average to you, coming from a country with such remarkable technical players you see every matchday, yet for some bizarrre reason have yet to be spotted by the scouts of the big clubs around the World, hence why they are still playing in South Africa. Obviously

Comparing Rooney with Crespo and Inzaghi- two (legendary) out and out goalscorers with a 21 year old who plays deep and sets up as many as he scores only goes further to suggest you must be a substance abuser. Which is it - marijuana, crack, glue? Go on, you can tell us, promise I wont tell

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4t23eyrEHJw

Rooney just a finisher?

That'll be the 15 assists he's got every season that led you to that opinion I guess.