Real Madrid Vs Bayern Munich .

S4P wrote:Real will regret selling Woodgate. Stupid move imo.

Jamie, when I criticise Terry, believe me - he's not alone. Cannavaro is in exactly the same group as far as I'm concerned. WPOTY my backside.

TeamSpirit wrote:

S4P wrote:Real will regret selling Woodgate. Stupid move imo.

Jamie, when I critcise Terry, believe me - he's not alone. Cannavaro is in exactly the same group as far as I'm concerned. WPOTY my backside.

It's OK, I have given up all hope with you TS. I know that you'll never change your mind, so now I will only refer to the Chelsea skipper as "him"

blutgraetsche wrote:

Rez wrote:
Blut not so sure about playing some of the best football, Spain, Argentina and Ivory coast can only make those claims.



I will be honest the German national team played some good stuff (for the first time in my life time) in the WC. They were definately better to watch than England. However I still stand by my points that you have had it easy draws in the last 2 world Cups and done well, had no such cannon fodder in the Euros and have been rubbish.



My initial posts were in response to ottos attack on English clubs in Europe. I still believe that German clubs are rubbish at the moment and there isnt a single german player i would want in my team (maybe Lahm on his WC form).

Well, like I said in earlier 'discussions' already, I hope that most foreign managers think like that, and don't appreciate German footballers. Not German football, but the German league, the Bundesliga, is in a crisis indeed, that's why we simply can't afford to lose our best players and become a farming league for others.

If ignorance and predjudice keep foreign managers from buying our talents, I'm fine with that. Unfortunately, we can't count on that, because scouts from all the major leagues / clubs are looking for talented youngsters in Germany these days. Compared to some overrated youngsters from other countries, they are dirt cheap also.

Spain, Argentina and Ivory Coast showed some great football also, but so did we. No team shot more goals than us, and very few were as attacking as us either.

And as far as the Euros are concerned, people seem to forget that we won it more often than any other nation, been to the final more often than any other nation. German football was dominating for decades, we were consistently successful in Europe for decades, an unparalleled streak. For various reasons, we had a huge crisis at the end of the 90s, and needed years to recover from it. The German FA, the DFB, needed to reform our youth system, and things started to improve dramatically in the last few years. The 2006 WC was just a foretaste, die Nationalmannschaft played even better after the WC. We are improving, while others are not. I'm very confident about the future of German football, and rightfully so.

The talented youngsters they are scouting, probably wont be German. Podolski and pig farmer were meant to be the great german hopes, but neither have reached the heights that the hype promised. Germany dont produce the kind of wonderkids that Holland, Argentina, Brazil, portugal etc produce.

Dont live in the past like Liverpool fans do, Germany did well in previous Euro competitions, but it looks unlikely that it will be repeated for a long time.

However two things may save Germany, they are one of the biggest countries in Europe and they always play well as a team. Germany despite having less talented individuals than there opponents, they always play well as a team, the sum is always greater than the parts, for which i greatly respect, as the English national team is the complete opposite.

German football isnt the power house it used to be, the leagues always been pretty average but Bayern have normally been really good and fly the flag fo germany, but this season they are rubbish as well. Next few seasons will be interesting for german football.

TeamSpirit wrote:

S4P wrote:Real will regret selling Woodgate. Stupid move imo.

Jamie, when I criticise Terry, believe me - he's not alone. Cannavaro is in exactly the same group as far as I'm concerned. WPOTY my backside.

as far as i know we have not sold him because he has said no since he wanted to make his choice when the season was over. if cappello is still the coach next summer(highly unlikely) then he might not be there.
also this is not the cannavaro who i saw for juve and italy last year by far.

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
also this is not the cannavaro who i saw for juve and italy last year by far.

Because players get the space to run at him and thus make him their bitch. Same happens with "him" and Carragher, Dellas et. al.

The one game whe Cannavaro looked dodgy in the WC was vs. the USA when Beasley & Donavan got room to run at him. Every other game the Midfielders in front of him didn't allow this to happen.

He was shit for Inter too, yet Cordoba could deal with it.

Rez wrote:
The talented youngsters they are scouting, probably wont be German. Podolski and pig farmer were meant to be the great german hopes, but neither have reached the heights that the hype promised. Germany dont produce the kind of wonderkids that Holland, Argentina, Brazil, portugal etc produce.

Well, both performed brilliantly when it mattered, not exactly what you can say about so called "wonderkids" from elsewhere. And we always produced 'wonderkids', Germany had some of the best individual talent ever.

Dont live in the past like Liverpool fans do, Germany did well in previous Euro competitions, but it looks unlikely that it will be repeated for a long time.

That reminds of the nonsense written by so called 'experts' prior to the WC who thought that Germany was going to be kicked out in the group stages already. We will see, underestimating Germany has always been at your peril, yet you never learn from it.

However two things may save Germany, they are one of the biggest countries in Europe and they always play well as a team. Germany despite having less talented individuals than there opponents, they always play well as a team, the sum is always greater than the parts, for which i greatly respect, as the English national team is the complete opposite.

This is one of the great myths that even some German fans believe. Yes, we were always well organised as a team, our team spirit was always strong, as our mental strenght and fitness. But, the great German teams always had some great individual talent as well. You need both to be truly successful. Neither individual talent (ask Brazil (WC 2006), nor team spirit and good organisation alone are enough.

German football isnt the power house it used to be, the leagues always been pretty average but Bayern have normally been really good and fly the flag fo germany, but this season they are rubbish as well. Next few seasons will be interesting for german football.

The league has always been 'pretty average'?

See, that's why I love you English guys, you just claim something without any factual basis, and think that you can get away with it. Pedantic and precise as we Krauts are, it doesn't work with us, I'm sorry.

Let us take a look at a very known and repeatedly shown ranking, often used to 'prove' how weak the Bundesliga is, compared to the so called "big three leagues", the official UEFA ranking. In 1990, Germany topped that ranking for the last time:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method1/crank1990.html


The last time the EPL topped that ranking was in 1985:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method1/crank1985.html


Between 1986 and 2000, the Bundesliga was always ahead of the EPL in the official UEFA ranking. And between 1976 and 1984, Germany always topped the ranking, after taking the lead from England who had been topping the ranking prior to that.

So much about the "Bundesliga was always average" remark.

@ blutgraetsche

I don't understand why the Bundesliga is criticised, some good football is played, week in and week out .. still UEFA was ruled by England, Spain and Italy .. now Platini had ended it.

oh Blut .. you might know this and Otto surely does.

England have never outperformed Germany in any World Cup since 1966

TeamSpirit™ wrote:

supermadrid(zizou legend) wrote:
also this is not the cannavaro who i saw for juve and italy last year by far.

Because players get the space to run at him and thus make him their bitch. Same happens with "him" and Carragher, Dellas et. al.

The one game whe Cannavaro looked dodgy in the WC was vs. the USA when Beasley & Donavan got room to run at him. Every other game the Midfielders in front of him didn't allow this to happen.

He was shit for Inter too, yet Cordoba could deal with it.

well i gues you havent seen much of madrid this season. we sit as deep as juve did and are even more defensive at times so i dont get what your point is. also italy played attacking yet cannavaro didnt get exposed and didnt even get a yellow card. now i have seen him enough times for madrid,juve and italy to say whether or not he is performing to his level and he is not. he has little confidence and he does show some great defending at times but then at some point in the game he will make a big screw up he is just not consistent enough in the game.

Rai Krol wrote:@ blutgraetsche

I don't understand why the Bundesliga is criticised, some good football is played, week in and week out .. still UEFA was ruled by England, Spain and Italy .. now Platini had ended it.

oh Blut .. you might know this and Otto surely does.

England have never outperformed Germany in any World Cup since 1966

The Bundesliga is 'criticised' because it is having a crisis, so the constructive criticism is well justified.

However, the Bundesliga is repeatedly being shit on by guys who have absolutely no clue about it, about the history, about the teams and the players. The main reason for this is because it is German, and Germany was just way too successful in the past, both on the international and club level, so that's probably an understandable reaction.

And I won't mention the war.

blutgraetsche wrote:
Between 1986 and 2000, the Bundesliga was always ahead of the EPL in the official UEFA ranking.

english clubs were kicked out of european competition between 1985 and 1990. which means any ranking between 1986 and 1994 would not be a fair comparison.

not putting down the bundesliga, which certainly produced stronger teams in europe than the premier league for much of the 90s. just pointing it out

That's true, of course. Thanks for metioning. Doesn't change anything about what I said though.

Any who, i will offer a million quid to what ever RM player that ends Van Bommels career in two weeks time

Hijo de Puta, fucking cunt tried to injurie Miguel Torres and Guti, and i still remember that dive!!!

Bayern have a NEW FACE

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/00163/Van-Bommel_DW_Sport_163373g.jpg

Ricardo Jol wrote:

DD wrote:Figo should have been sent off for his headbutt, then Boulah wouldn't have been.

Van Bommel should have sent off streaight from the beginning! Also, he wound up the Portuguese while they like to play games like that. If we played our own game without a moron like Van Bommel we should have won that game with 11 men on the pitch!

Erm, *who* fo you think decided on the tactics for that match ?

I'll give you some clues :

it's the same tactical mastermind who plays VDV on RW, Kuijt on LW and didn't want to win against Argentina at the WC because he *wanted* to play against Portugal....

Van Basten made also mistakes indeed.

Kuyt as a lone striker never works! Sneijder as a DMF never works as well! Those things were stupid of Van Basten! He also made a mistake to keep Van Bommel in the line up because he is not the right player to stick with the defensive tasks on a three mens midfield without a good back up defensively! Landzaat would have played much more controlling on that position without making so many fouls.

You can use Van Bommel if he is allowed to go forward and to make his famous hoofing runs. That position was not in the Van Basten tactics especially because Van Basten wasn´t sure enough how well his defence was if they played more attacking.

The Dutch defence was not very experienced so it is a big risk to let them also play on the midfield to create that extra man there plus you can guard the attacking midfielders.

However, I think Ooijer could have played more forward than he was able to do at the WC but that contains always more risk because you sometimes you don´t have not enough men behind the ball!

did anyone know that the 4 players with most CL appearances ever were all on the same pitch last Tuesday?

Raul, Khan, Beckham and...........

Roberto Carlos

I thought Maldini or Giggs might be in the top number as well.

Maldini is nº 5 with 100 appearances.

There are 4 over 100 and they all played Real - Bayern

Jurassic Park that!

Kahn, Ruinberto Carlos, Beckham and Maldini will not play many UCL matches. Raul is not even 30 yet and no manager has the guts to take him out of the starting XI. He will be the leader for a long time.

Watch out for Neville as well. He's around the 100 mark as and will be a first team starter for a couple of years.

Be great if he ended up with the record, a player Europe can be proud of.

the top 10 is as follows:

Raul - 107
R carlos - 106
Beckham - 103
Kahn - 101
Maldini - 100
G neville - 97
Figo - 95
Giggs - 91
Scholes - 91
Seedorf - 88

from those Raul seems to be the youngest. Even if Real go out in this round, no one will be overtaking him this season. if Raul plays the most someone can make up to him in one season is 5 games. So it would take Neville at least 3-4 years to catch up in that case.

Yeah probably right.

I think in 2 - 3 years time that top 10 will look more like

Raul
G Neville/R Carlos (depending where R Carlos moves to after Madrid)
Beckham/Giggs/Scholes
Khan
Maldini
Figo
Seedorf