Kuyt V Berbatov V Martins

Parks lives wrote:

110% wrote:so the bias applies equal to a manu fan like spanky choosing berbatov just becasue he doesn't want a liverpool player to be top)

You think thats the only reason I've chose Berbatov?

Jesus wept.

Probably as there is not a more biased poster on the boards except maybe Nutters.

It is the same reasoning you have give below. Kuyt is not that good and is only getting votes because of the liverpool and dutch fans. If you read properly I said the same argument of bias applies, i.e. berbatov is not that good and is only receiving votes from manu fans to stop a liverpool player being top. I am afraid that this is the nature of polls.

Parks lives wrote:

Tweedle wrote:This poll is a joke.

All the Liverpool and Dutch posters (ie most of the board) have voted for Kuyt.

Exactly. Look at some of the Pool fans reasoning as well.

'All really good player, its very hard to split but I'll vote for Kuyt'.

Berbatov scoring record: (apps/goals)

CSKA Sofia: 50/25
Bayer Leverkusen: 154/69
Tottenham Hotspur: 27(5)/14

Bulgaria: 54/34

Not bad eh

How many of Martins' and Berbatov's (in particular) have come against nothing opposition in the waffer cup?

I saw Pip use the 'tarded arguement that Berbatov has scored more in Europe than Kuyt, and you really dismissing the massive gap in quality between the two competitions.

If I said Alexandre Kerhzakov or Massimo Maccarone was better than/equal to Rooney in European competition you'd rightly disagree.

Berbatov is by far the most naturally skillful of the 3 but at the same time is probably the easier of the 3 to mark out of the game. He has no great amount of pace to run in behind alá Martins and he certainly doesn't work as much as Kuyt.

I wouldn't choose any of the other two over Kuyt (though I would have picked Berby at the start of the season) but I'm aware Kimbo and TS probably feel the exact same way.

The major difference here is that Kuyt is already boardering on iconic (quite how I'm unsure) and when he reaches his potential he won't be wanting a move to a Champions League club. You think Berbatov and to a lesser extent Martins aren't going to angle for a move to a massive club if the opportunity arises.

But Berbatov has scored on many occasions in both competitions...as I dare say Kuyt has....

Obispo wrote:

The major difference here is that Kuyt is already boardering on iconic (quite how I'm unsure) and when he reaches his potential he won't be wanting a move to a Champions League club. You think Berbatov and to a lesser extent Martins aren't going to angle for a move to a massive club if the opportunity arises.

& how is that relevant to there qualities?

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:Berbatov scoring record: (apps/goals)

CSKA Sofia: 50/25
Bayer Leverkusen: 154/69
Tottenham Hotspur: 27(5)/14

Bulgaria: 54/34

Not bad eh

If you're going by stats then you should agree that crouch is far better than ashton?

In the UEFA Cup Martins has 3 and Berbatov has 5.

Martins - 2x Levadia, 1x Zulte-Waregem

I think he missed he group stage through injury, and being rested.

Berbatov - 1x Beskitas, 2x Club Brugge, 1x Leverkusen, 1x Dinamo Bucuresti.


Probably fairer to look just at league goals IMO.

110% wrote:

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:Berbatov scoring record: (apps/goals)

CSKA Sofia: 50/25
Bayer Leverkusen: 154/69
Tottenham Hotspur: 27(5)/14

Bulgaria: 54/34

Not bad eh

If you're going by stats then you should agree that crouch is far better than ashton?

crouch Total (Club) 265 (52) 84
ashton Total (Club) 241 (35) 98

110% wrote:

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:Berbatov scoring record: (apps/goals)

CSKA Sofia: 50/25
Bayer Leverkusen: 154/69
Tottenham Hotspur: 27(5)/14

Bulgaria: 54/34

Not bad eh

If you're going by stats then you should agree that crouch is far better than ashton?

1)You can't compare Crouch and Ashton...
2)I was pointing out the Goalscoring record of Berbatov..If I was going to compare I would've posted Martins and Kuyt's aswell...

Are you going to use International goals as one of your arguements?? You know comparing 17/11 to 0/0 ??

L r d wrote:

110% wrote:

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:Berbatov scoring record: (apps/goals)

CSKA Sofia: 50/25
Bayer Leverkusen: 154/69
Tottenham Hotspur: 27(5)/14

Bulgaria: 54/34

Not bad eh

If you're going by stats then you should agree that crouch is far better than ashton?

crouch Total (Club) 265 (52) 84
ashton Total (Club) 241 (35) 98

how many at the top level?

My point was more to do with: when are stats ok and when are they not?

Those of you who believe the stats and say that berbatov is better than kuyt and martins based on them, should also then believe the stats that say that fabregas is better than scholes.

This is especially true for spanky who believes one stat but not the other.

I believe they are an indication only and in no way conclusive one way or another.

Parks lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:

The major difference here is that Kuyt is already boardering on iconic (quite how I'm unsure) and when he reaches his potential he won't be wanting a move to a Champions League club. You think Berbatov and to a lesser extent Martins aren't going to angle for a move to a massive club if the opportunity arises.

& how is that relevant to there qualities?

Loyalty is a much sought commodity as I'm sure you'll realise come the summer when Ronaldo fuck's off.

110% wrote:

L r d wrote:

110% wrote:

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:Berbatov scoring record: (apps/goals)

CSKA Sofia: 50/25
Bayer Leverkusen: 154/69
Tottenham Hotspur: 27(5)/14

Bulgaria: 54/34

Not bad eh

If you're going by stats then you should agree that crouch is far better than ashton?

crouch Total (Club) 265 (52) 84
ashton Total (Club) 241 (35) 98

how many at the top level?

HAHAHAHA I knew this was coming are you ready to look like a muppet now?

Peter Crouch
94/32 of his apps and goals were in Division 2(League 1) for QPR and for Portsmouth in Division 1 (Championship) and for Norwich in the Championship

Well Done mate...I await your response

The only stat Fabregas was leading was tackling.

He's behind in goals and passing.


Btw, am I the only reason you come on this board or something. All you do is come on to argue and reply to my posts.

You're not me brother are you pretending to be Italian?

Obispo wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:

The major difference here is that Kuyt is already boardering on iconic (quite how I'm unsure) and when he reaches his potential he won't be wanting a move to a Champions League club. You think Berbatov and to a lesser extent Martins aren't going to angle for a move to a massive club if the opportunity arises.

& how is that relevant to there qualities?

Loyalty is a much sought commodity as I'm sure you'll realise come the summer when Ronaldo fuck's off.

Yes, again you can't respond with out a wind up.


I just don't see why Kuyt being at a bigger club and less likely to move has anything to do with there ability as a footballer.

Obispo wrote:

Parks lives wrote:

Obispo wrote:

The major difference here is that Kuyt is already boardering on iconic (quite how I'm unsure) and when he reaches his potential he won't be wanting a move to a Champions League club. You think Berbatov and to a lesser extent Martins aren't going to angle for a move to a massive club if the opportunity arises.

& how is that relevant to there qualities?

Loyalty is a much sought commodity as I'm sure you'll realise come the summer when Ronaldo fuck's off.

Obispo, Obispo, Obispo. We keep our best players, we're not in the 80s anymore.

@ spanky: actually I just post on things that I find interesting, and in this case it is quite interesting that the same people who dismiss stats in one thread as it is against one of their loved ones are suddenly using stats in another thread. you came up recently all over the thread with fabregas dismissing stats, then here you are using them

If you might notice I am also replying to deano's posts, but deano should check above.

@ deano: I am not at all in favour of using stats except as an indicator. I know that crouch also played in the lower leagues, but you were the one reporting stats. I was pointing out that all football stats are fundamentally flawed as they have too many uncertainties, e.g. you cannot say that Berbatov is better than kuyt because he has more goals because: who was the opposition, how was the opposition defence, was it an attacking or defensive line-up, how did the teams play, how was the partnership between the attackers, were players carrying slight injuries, were the midfielders supplying decent balls etc. etc. etc.

with all these incertainties how can it be decided using purely stats that one player is better than another?

No I wasn't reporting stats...I was showing Berbatov's goalscoring record which I didn't compare to others...

You then said stats would show that Crouch is better than Ashton which failed...

You then said about playing in lower leagues..again another failed arguement...

I didn't say Berbatov was better than Kut or Martins on goals scored, I gave my reason which was completely different. Also you cannot compare Crouch and Ashton...

Parks lives wrote:The only stat Fabregas was leading was tackling.

He's behind in goals and passing.


Btw, am I the only reason you come on this board or something. All you do is come on to argue and reply to my posts.

You're not me brother are you pretending to be Italian?

Cesc is also leading in assists

Deaño-WHUFC wrote:
I didn't say Berbatov was better than Kut or Martins on goals scored, I gave my reason which was completely different. Also you cannot compare Crouch and Ashton...

Because Crouch has scored at a decent level?

I actually said:

If you're going by stats then you should agree that crouch is far better than ashton?

i.e. I am not going by stats but if you are then ...

I didn't go into them, but I am sure that crouch's stats on the top level are better than ashton just because ashton is always injured and has played what 11 games in the EPL with 3 goals or something? I asked about the different levels as another uncertainty in statistics. I don't even care about comparing them. If you think Ashton is better fair enough, I think Crouch is better. Both opinions are equally valid, as are opinions that Kuyt is better than berbatov.

BTW I think Crouch is better than Kuyt or Berbatov, but then that's my opinion.

Crouch is currently better than Ashton - largely because Ashton just hasn't done anything yet an national or european level whereas Crouch has.

Berbatov and Kuyt can be compared a bit more though - both came from their respective leagues with very good scoring records and both haven't exactly been on fire this season but have done well with everything but being prolific.

The strength of EPL defences perhaps?

The stats are not amazing for crouch. he had a good scoring run, but he also went 3-4 months or maybe more without scoring.

Tweedle wrote:Crouch is currently better than Ashton - largely because Ashton just hasn't done anything yet an national or european level whereas Crouch has.

Berbatov and Kuyt can be compared a bit more though - both came from their respective leagues with very good scoring records and both haven't exactly been on fire this season but have done well with everything but being prolific.

The strength of EPL defences perhaps?

Well then..so how can you say he is better? When Ashton hasn't had the chance to prove himself at both of these levels?

L r d wrote:The stats are not amazing for crouch. he had a good scoring run, but he also went 3-4 months or maybe more without scoring.

didn't blut? post something that implied crouch was the 2nd top goalscorer in the world with both club and country for the calendar year?

he had a great run but of course got accused of not being able to score against the bigger sides (man u and chelsea conviently forgotten in this argument) Im not writing ashton off or even criticising him but the man needs to be given more of a chance before deserving the level of hype he gets from some posters

that's actually my point about ashton, wait until he has proved himself

and wait for these 3 as well

No one had said this until now...

All Ive been hearing is that Ashton is overhyped...this player is better than Ashton etc...

'Mazing how a thread that doesn't involve United, Arsenal or even West Ham can be turned into a collection of Liverpool, Cesc and Ashton digs.

Ashton in a poster boy for EMB hype in the same way that Ledley King is.

Both good, potentially international class players turned into the the great english hope for technically gifted players at the expense of lesser fashionable but far more talented and proven players.

Kuyt will score argainst Barcelona....that will place him above the rest!

Deano, how's that poll at the Hammer site going?