The Next England Squad

Has Hart's club future been resolved yet? Would be silly to have a first choice England keeper who's 2nd choice behind Shay Given at his club.

I think Given is injured and won't be fit to start the season so Hart has a chance to claim the spot as his own..

kas wrote:Has Hart's club future been resolved yet? Would be silly to have a first choice England keeper who's 2nd choice behind Shay Given at his club.

Given is apparently out injured until early winter time, so Hart is being retained until then. If Hart performs as well as he did last season then Mancini couldn't possibly drop him and we'll have an England keeper for a CL quality team for the next ten or so years.

It'll be interesting to see how he handles the pressure of knowing that his performances over the next few months could cement him a place for a top class team.

I think Hart's better than Given. Hughes signed Given so I don't think Mancini will feel a moral obligation to play Given ahead of Hart if Hart is performing well. Playing for a team with the aspirations of Citeh will be a different type of pressure though to what Hart is used to and it'll be interesting to see how he handles it

It's what we need though. Need England players to be at clubs in/around CL...

Which is one reason why it's great Spurs qualified this year ahead of Liverpool.

Assuming they get past the qualifier, we got likes of Lennon, Dawson, THudd, Defoe all playing CL for the first time.

Villa, Spurs, Everton, City have probably the most 20-25 yr old England hopefuls and any of them playing CL will be good experience.

I seem to remember that we were all a bit bemused by the signing of Given in the first place because Hart was playing well for Citeh at the time. He was good then, but he's massively stepped his game up in the past year or so - he seems to have a lot more confidence and prescence now than he did at the start of the 08/09 season

He was always confident. Came in at Shrewsbury as a 16/17 yr old but was not afraid to shout at seasoned 30-something lower league defenders

One of the reasons people always thought he'd go far..

Big 4 Billy Bollocks™ wrote:------------------------Hart

G.Johnson---Dawson-----Lescott--------Cashley

-------------Huddlestone---Milner

A.Johnson----------Rooney (c) --------Ashley Young

--------------------Carlton Cole

Yay? Nay?

What do all of you have against Agbonlahor ?

He'd already be a sure starter beside(s) Rooney in my book...

Tweedle goes so overboard about Hart

Agbonlahor should be getting chances in the squad for sure. He played well with Rooney in the few chances he's got. He could be something of a compromise between a Heskey-type and a Defoe/Bent-type. More goals than the former, more of a physical threat than the latter.

Of course Pierre will point out he's not much of a footballer, but anyone who's not Chevanton or Shevchenko is a failure in his eyes

The problem with Agbonlahor is that he's very inconsistent.

He'll go on brilliant runs of form and then by completely anonymous for the next ten games.

His pace IS scary though and he'll put in a good shift.

Kimbo wrote:Tweedle goes so overboard about Hart

Getting defensive about Given are we?

I just see him as potentially being a top class keeper that's all. Its been a while since we had one! So yes, I'm a little excited.

I don't care about Given, he's a keeper that relies alot on reactions, so as he's in his mid 30s i expect him to be slowing down. You talk about Hart as if he is Gordon Banks though.

Tweesus wrote:The problem with Agbonlahor is that he's very inconsistent.

He'll go on brilliant runs of form and then by completely anonymous for the next ten games.

His pace IS scary though and he'll put in a good shift.

Yep. I certainly wouldn't advocate him as a starter yet, but a place in the squad and some chances off the bench would be good.

I reckon we need to make him a little less assured of his place at Villa too. I think part of the form dips are because he knows he'll start whatever happens. Hopefully Fonz/a new signing can put a bit more pressure on his place and force him to up his game consistently this season.

Kimbo wrote:I don't care about Given, he's a keeper that relies alot on reactions, so as he's in his mid 30s i expect him to be slowing down. You talk about Hart as if he is Gordon Banks though.

Hardly, saying 'he without doubt should be England's first choice' and 'he should be first choice for a team pushing for CL football' isn't exactly comparing him to England best ever keeper is it

the only comparison I have made in fact is with Seaman - which isn't exactly a glittering comparison seems as he probably wouldn't make a top 5 england keepers list.

So he's better than Seaman and Given. I suppose next week he will be better than Schmeichel aswell.

No. He's better than Given in my mind, yes. Currently. I think that Given's passed his peak though.

I never said that he was even as good as Seaman. I said he could be as good as Seaman.

Tweesus wrote:I never said that he was even as good as Seaman. I said he could be as good as Seaman.

I remember now, people were making up fake headlines, 'Tweeds excited by new Seaman' and the like. To take the piss. Out of you being a faggot.

Kimbo wrote:So he's better than Seaman and Given. I suppose next week he will be better than Schmeichel aswell.

Whoa, quite a leap there from Seaman/Given to Schmeichel, don't ya think?

Anyways, I am with Tweedy on this... Hart does look promising. Sometimes it does make sense to give a shot to a promising keeper, like Italy did with Buffon many years ago. Perhaps a role as the England No 2 to start with, with an year of gradual easing into the No 1 role, as long as he moves from strength to strength?

bluenine wrote:

Kimbo wrote:So he's better than Seaman and Given. I suppose next week he will be better than Schmeichel aswell.

Whoa, quite a leap there from Seaman/Given to Schmeichel, don't ya think?

Anyways, I am with Tweedy on this... Hart does look promising. Sometimes it does make sense to give a shot to a promising keeper, like Italy did with Buffon many years ago. Perhaps a role as the England No 2 to start with, with an year of gradual easing into the No 1 role, as long as he moves from strength to strength?

Well those are my top 3 premiership keepers.

Bluey, who would you have in the intevening period though? James is going to be 40 soon and he really isn't that good.

And Green, Foster and Robinson just aren't very good - not good enough to be an international anyhow.

bluenine wrote:

Kimbo wrote:So he's better than Seaman and Given. I suppose next week he will be better than Schmeichel aswell.

Whoa, quite a leap there from Seaman/Given to Schmeichel, don't ya think?

Anyways, I am with Tweedy on this... Hart does look promising. Sometimes it does make sense to give a shot to a promising keeper, like Italy did with Buffon many years ago. Perhaps a role as the England No 2 to start with, with an year of gradual easing into the No 1 role, as long as he moves from strength to strength?

What's "gradual easing" with a goalkeeper anyway? It's not like you can bring him on as a sub for the last 20 mins. You either play him or you don't.

As of the 41st minute of the England-USA match, Hart is already England no. 2. So I don't see why there should be any hesitation about playing him straightaway. If he fails like Carson or Robinson, then let him go away and try to recover his career. If not, then let him keep playing. There's no point protecting a young keeper if you don't have any better alternatives.

What does everyone else think about Lee Cattermole? Only 22 and a dedicated DMF which is what England certainly need to think about developing for 2018.

If we go with a Brazil formation with two quite straightforward destroyers in the middle of the park then I think Huddlestone and Cattermole may well be the way forward - at least give them a go in the friendlies where it won't matter.

Rasiak-9 wrote:What does everyone else think about Lee Cattermole? Only 22 and a dedicated DMF which is what England certainly need to think about developing for 2018.

Saw him play for young England in Groningen half a year ago or so....I couldn't see what all the fuss was about, didn't look like anything special to me...

Rasiak-9 wrote:What does everyone else think about Lee Cattermole? Only 22 and a dedicated DMF which is what England certainly need to think about developing for 2018.

If we go with a Brazil formation with two quite straightforward destroyers in the middle of the park then I think Huddlestone and Cattermole may well be the way forward - at least give them a go in the friendlies where it won't matter.

I think he's a violent piece of shit.

Clone Scholes and wait 20 years IMO.

By 2018 the concept of a DM may well be outdated.

There's no point trying to groom players for specific positions or to fit certain moulds, that's a concept doomed for failure. What you need to do is build the basic skills in young players - passing, ball control, movement, etc. Those will be universal regardless of what position someone plays.

Then depending on other attributes, physical abilities, and ability to understand tactics/positioning in different parts of the pitch, you can have a young player find his best position.

Axeslammer wrote:

Rasiak-9 wrote:What does everyone else think about Lee Cattermole? Only 22 and a dedicated DMF which is what England certainly need to think about developing for 2018.

Saw him play for young England in Groningen half a year ago or so....I couldn't see what all the fuss was about, didn't look like anything special to me...

Hrm. Well lets see what he can do. I mean don't forget he's 22 which is like being 18/19 for a defensive midfielder so theres a long way for him to improve.

Secondly, he's the kind of youngster we need, someone who'll not just go in as a passenger but actually take it upon themselves to have a real impact on the team.

If he's cack and it all goes pear-shaped? Never mind; its only a friendly.

I could of course be completely wrong! But I'd definately like to see Huddlestone and Cattermole given a chance in CM/DM in a 4-2-3-1

kas wrote:By 2018 the concept of a DM may well be outdated.

There's no point trying to groom players for specific positions or to fit certain moulds, that's a concept doomed for failure. What you need to do is build the basic skills in young players - passing, ball control, movement, etc. Those will be universal regardless of what position someone plays.

Then depending on other attributes, physical abilities, and ability to understand tactics/positioning in different parts of the pitch, you can have a young player find his best position.

Try telling that to every coach in the UK.

kas wrote:By 2018 the concept of a DM may well be outdated.

There's no point trying to groom players for specific positions or to fit certain moulds, that's a concept doomed for failure. What you need to do is build the basic skills in young players - passing, ball control, movement, etc. Those will be universal regardless of what position someone plays.

Then depending on other attributes, physical abilities, and ability to understand tactics/positioning in different parts of the pitch, you can have a young player find his best position.

I do agree with your idea that improving the England team may require improvement on fundamental skills and tactical awareness more than anything, but I'd be very suprised if the idea of a DM is outdated in 8 years. I mean, a tough-tackling midfielder has pretty much always transcended football.

Good luck to the England team in the future.