HomeGood! Traitors to the flag will be executed 
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U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
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- Post n°271
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Fey Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am
DD- Number of posts : 10721
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It would be your boy Drenthe lining up against the wall first.Fey wrote:Good! Traitors to the flag will be executed
I'm absolutely disgusted with this. It shows the hypocrisy of this nation once again - and most seem to be oblivious to it.
If it had been a Frisian flag or the three crosses from Amsterdam no-one would have said anything about it.
And the reason they're only saying something about it now, is because its a ''hot topic' in politics. And the real reason they're saying something about it is because the 'darkies' were joyous in while waving another flag.
Foppe should have kept is gob shut.
Now in another clumn they want him as bondscoach because he showed the darkies who's the 'massa'.
Fey- Number of posts : 35349
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- Post n°273
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Fey Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:08 am
Same story for the the Frisian flag! In Heereveen they still hate us because we refused to stand for the Frisian anthem....its bollocks! But seriously those Surinam flags spoiled it! It shows the people its not a Dutch victory, and most people will ask themselves what those people do here, if they dont feel Dutch anyway.
Im myself, like the half of the country, of Indonesian decent. And those people have become Dutch, why is it so hard for the rest to do that?
Im myself, like the half of the country, of Indonesian decent. And those people have become Dutch, why is it so hard for the rest to do that?
Since 1888- Number of posts : 5171
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- Post n°274
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Since 1888 Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:25 am
We in the Randstad can't really relate with regional bonding that much. In de Randstad you feel Dutch or Rotterdammer/Amsterdammer but not Zuid-Hollands or something.
The critism is really a form of ignorance in mostly the Randstad me thinks.
It's really sad that these players who really did very well for Holland and played with all of there harts are now a victim of a political discussions. If they play there best and put all they have in for Holland I don't understand such a discussion purely bassed on some symbolic figure to honour where they came from.
The action itself was totally niet provocerend, I don't see the real fuss.
The critism is really a form of ignorance in mostly the Randstad me thinks.
It's really sad that these players who really did very well for Holland and played with all of there harts are now a victim of a political discussions. If they play there best and put all they have in for Holland I don't understand such a discussion purely bassed on some symbolic figure to honour where they came from.
The action itself was totally niet provocerend, I don't see the real fuss.
110%- Number of posts : 8978
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- Post n°275
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by 110% Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:28 am
Ricardo Jol wrote:i agree with you, it is true many Dutch origins find it difficult to see Surinamese Dutch as "real" dutch! But the other way around, it is also because they act different... It is both ways!
The reason why stong independent and emancipated women like Ayaan Hirshi Ali are hated by many Surinamese Dutch because she doesn't think "black" is rediculous. It seems to be that being "black" isn't a "colour" but rather a life style...!
I don't care they wave Surinamese flags but they are in the first place Dutch! I hoped to see many blacks singing with Vlaar, Maduro and Drenthe the national anthem... But unfortunately they didn't....
I also hoped to see more blacks in the crowd. It was a 95% white audiance while 80% of the players were black! Why? Price tickets are too expensive? Groningen, Nijmegen, Arnhem and Heerenveen are for 95% white Dutch origin? When I look at the Ajax or Feyenoord crowd I also see mainly white supporters and hardly any blacks...
While when the Suriprofs are playing they are suddenly there from all over the country...!
The PVDA (Not to mention Groen Links and D66) is still larger than Wilders and they are the party for the allochtonen they always pamper the Dutchies with a different background and still people blame it on Wilders....
People can be one nationality and still respect where they are from. I'll bet you the people in surinam were cheering the dutch on as well especially with those players playing so whats the problem with acknowledging also where your support comes from.
Some surinamese dutch might not like some Ayaan Hirshi Ali's behaviour but you'll probbaly find that there are plenty of dutch who don't like her behaviour as well. What does that say? There are racists on both sides.
Singing the national anthem: players for many countries don't regardless of colour, maybe it is just that they don't feel like they have a good voice and know that the camera is passing in front of them or even they don't like the song, eg English national anthem is about saving the queen, so maybe the footballer is not a royalist but is still patriotic.
As for supporters at football matches. A lot of skin-head neo-nazi types go so it is still not really the nicest environment for ethnic minorities, especially families. Probably they would go to the national team games which are safer but harder to get tickets to since the tickets go through the supporters clubs usually.
DD- Number of posts : 10721
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- Post n°276
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by DD Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:45 am
Trieste dag 
Ricardo Jol- Number of posts : 12766
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- Post n°277
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Ricardo Jol Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:51 am
@110%
Oranje supporters are no skin heads they are mostly white provincial people who are innocent...
At Feyenoord and Ajax there are more neo nazi's, skinheads and racist's indeed.
On Suriname-Dutchies, In the first place they Dutch so the Dutch flag comes first! They are all born and raised here in the Netherlands and most of their parents as well...
On Ayaan, Many blacks say she doesn't talk "black" so they say she is upsetting the black culture... She is imo an individual and what colour she is, is not important to me!
@Leo
The thing is we share the same values, have probably the same idea's on about many things the only difference is we look things from a different angle.
My girlfriend is Moroccan-Dutch. When I walk into Restaurants/Bars with mainly "left socialists" or "posh" people I see many people watch at her and me because we are different. Those non-outspoken signals are making me more sick than when I go to more typical Dutch bars where people are more judged on who they are...
Oranje supporters are no skin heads they are mostly white provincial people who are innocent...
At Feyenoord and Ajax there are more neo nazi's, skinheads and racist's indeed.
On Suriname-Dutchies, In the first place they Dutch so the Dutch flag comes first! They are all born and raised here in the Netherlands and most of their parents as well...
On Ayaan, Many blacks say she doesn't talk "black" so they say she is upsetting the black culture... She is imo an individual and what colour she is, is not important to me!
@Leo
The thing is we share the same values, have probably the same idea's on about many things the only difference is we look things from a different angle.
My girlfriend is Moroccan-Dutch. When I walk into Restaurants/Bars with mainly "left socialists" or "posh" people I see many people watch at her and me because we are different. Those non-outspoken signals are making me more sick than when I go to more typical Dutch bars where people are more judged on who they are...
Since 1888- Number of posts : 5171
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- Post n°278
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Since 1888 Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:19 am
Am I the only one this issue in mainly a issue because of the lack of tolerantie nowadays? You must really have a small number of 'incasseringsvermogen' when you are feeling attacked by some flags.
Ricardo Jol- Number of posts : 12766
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- Post n°279
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Ricardo Jol Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:24 am
jonathan de guzman wrote:What I've noticed it that 2nd/ 3rd generation immigrants who felt 100% Dutch and were fully integrated, feel less Dutch anymore because of politicians branding entire groups and the less smart part of their following going further and insult them just for the way they look.
I have sometimes a feeling it is also a good excuse to blame everything on politicians! Because it is just a small part who do that..
Mohammed B was already extreme before Wilders was memeber of parliament for the VVD
SuperMario- Number of posts : 16866
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- Post n°280
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by SuperMario Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:01 pm
On Match attendence by Dutchmen with Surinamese roots. There are going to club matches, I know quite a few with a Feyenoord season ticket at our Curva Nord. But not as many as you would expect based on their share of the population, it's increasing though.
On the national team, hardly went to any matches recently, but it can be pretty hard to get a ticket, so you have to get 1 in time (Dutchmen with Surinamese roots have a tendency to want to decide late what to do) & the tickets are expensive. Furthermore it's great fun & cheaper watching national team matches in pubs (Surinamese or others).
The reason why they do go to the Suriprof matches is that it's easier to get tickets & those matches also have a social function you see a lot of people you know. My missus would never go to a footy match (see prefers to work -horeca- during matches), but she's been to Kwakoe several times because she meets a lot of relatives, etc. there. The social function is more important than the actual match for most attending. I've watched matches of our own national team abroad with Dutch ex-pats, it's exactly the same for them.
110%'s last paragraph is a bit over the top. It's not that bad.
On the national team, hardly went to any matches recently, but it can be pretty hard to get a ticket, so you have to get 1 in time (Dutchmen with Surinamese roots have a tendency to want to decide late what to do) & the tickets are expensive. Furthermore it's great fun & cheaper watching national team matches in pubs (Surinamese or others).
The reason why they do go to the Suriprof matches is that it's easier to get tickets & those matches also have a social function you see a lot of people you know. My missus would never go to a footy match (see prefers to work -horeca- during matches), but she's been to Kwakoe several times because she meets a lot of relatives, etc. there. The social function is more important than the actual match for most attending. I've watched matches of our own national team abroad with Dutch ex-pats, it's exactly the same for them.
110%'s last paragraph is a bit over the top. It's not that bad.
110%- Number of posts : 8978
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- Post n°281
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by 110% Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:12 pm
I shouldn't have generalised all the fans but ricardo was talking about the club attendances and there is a small but signifcant number of very agressive men who attend mainly club football matches (in every country) looking for trouble. Being an ethnic minority you would be at a higher risk of getting into trouble as you are more visible and therefore would be targetted. For this reason I can imagine that there are less people from ethinc backgrounds attending football matches where there is the potential for trouble.
Since 1888- Number of posts : 5171
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- Post n°282
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Since 1888 Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:48 pm
At Sparta we had the JongSpartanen, a group of Marrocan people. They were great and I hope they will continue this next season. They are almost one of the loudest groups in the stadium.
Ricardo Jol- Number of posts : 12766
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- Post n°283
Re: U21 FINAL Holland v Serbia 23/6 19.45 BST / 20.45 CET
by Ricardo Jol Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:19 pm
jonathan de guzman wrote:On Match attendence by Dutchmen with Surinamese roots. There are going to club matches, I know quite a few with a Feyenoord season ticket at our Curva Nord. But not as many as you would expect based on their share of the population, it's increasing though.
That's what I think as well so the politics are not damiging anything Maybe it is even the other way around!
It is good to have a strong argument with your to get closer to each other.... After that the sex is even better...
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