Liverpool FC Thread 2011-2012

Wasted careers, wasted hopes and dreams, wasteland.

Come to the land of milk and honey you talented lads.

fcb wrote:Pacheco has gone, in a creative move - Liverpool loaned him to Atletico, who in turn have loaned him to Rayo Vallecano. But Atletico retain the right to buy.

how what?

Quick question for Liverpool fans, do you expect Luis Suárez to make a bigger impact than Torres did during his 3 and half seasons at Liverpool.

COTR wrote:Anyone know anything about Mr Coates ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14637292.stm

I did a preview on another site (Stinger can back me up ) both from a betting and football perspective. But I bypassed mentioning him as tbh I didn't know much about him or his club. That despite me watching a good bit of South American club football during the summer months, mainly Argentina, Brazil and Copa Lib. Based on Copa America and going from what else I've picked up, he's a similar player to Diego Lugano in height/look and play style. He even has been nicknamed Luganito by Uruguayan and Nacional fans. Am quite surprised to learn his move to Porto didn't happen, they've been watching him for about 3/4 years now and rate him very highly. They saw him as the long term successor to Bruno Alves who moved onto Zenit time last summer and haven't replaced him properly. One weakness I feel he has is that he can get turned quite quickly but during the Copa I saw signs that he'd improved on that. He is also Hyypia-esque in the sense that his reading of the game is quite excellent.

blutgraetsche wrote:KICK THE FOREIGNERS OUT!

...and launch an academy where they live instead:

Liverpool launch second football academy in India

The English giants launch a football academy on the outskirts of Delhi, named after former midfielder Steve McMahon, who is also to be the head coach of the centre

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/england/2011/08/24/2634314/liverpool-launch-second-football-academy-in-india

Batman wrote:Quick question for Liverpool fans, do you expect Luis Suárez to make a bigger impact than Torres did during his 3 and half seasons at Liverpool.

Yes. Yes indeed. Even if it's anything near what Torres did it's a massive bonus, certainly capable of it though.

-------------------------------------------------------

Don't care what youth players we get rid of or loan out as long as it's not Suso/Sterling.

Jordan Henderson..not only awfully average..but also an awful diver.

Meireles out for couple of weeks. Some collarbone injury.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14658974.stm

Think you'll sign Bellamy?

Bellamy would make an excellent replacement for Suarez. Really need to weed out all the non-Brit elements from this team:

GK
Johnson-Carragher-Kelly-Flanagan
Henderson-Gerrard-Adam-Downing
Carroll-Bellamy

It's almost there. Sell Suarez, Agger, Meireles, Enrique and Reina. Bring in Bellamy, Shawcross, Barton, Warnock and Green. Sorted

debaser wrote:Really need to weed out all the non-Brit elements from this team:

[...]

Sorted

Aquilani has gone to AC Milan on loan and if he makes 25 or more appearances for them they have to sign him.

£7m on Sebastián Coates means probably no Cahill, Shawcross or Dann but he still might not get a work permit. I secretly hope we gazump Arsenal with Cahill for £7m and Bolton sell him to us out of spite especially since they've been chasing N'Gog apparently.

What do we all think of Bellamy returning? I would have preferred Hugo Rodallega but I think either would provide decent backup for Suarez.

Apparently Coates will be signing today. 6ft 6, dayummmmmmmm.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/08/26/uruguay-defender-sebastian-coates-set-to-tie-up-7m-move-to-liverpool-fc-100252-29305243/

Another great leaves

Liverpool have confirmed the transfer of Emiliano Insua to Sporting Lisbon.

The Argentine left-back has signed a five-year deal with the Portuguese club.

Benitez's brilliant strategy of spending a few million on signing up 3398282 foreign youngsters a few years ago is really paying off.

#scattergun

he made more appearances for Liverpool than Ibrahimovic made for Barcelona.

#morethanacunt

fcb wrote:Benitez's brilliant strategy of spending a few million on signing up 3398282 foreign youngsters a few years ago is really paying off.

#scattergun

Our academy has rarely been in a better position (see numbers represented in all England age groups).

Seems to me that Benitez's focus on completely reshaping our youth system has been a success yet you are strangely criticising it

there are several failures, as with any academy. I'm sure every player Barcelona signs plays 500 games for the first team, but citing Insua, who made 60 appearances and was a squad regular under Benitez and has been sold to a top European side is a bit silly. You're better off looking at Godwin Antwi (23) who now plays in Denmark, Fran Duran (23) Chris Mavinga, Daniel Sjolund Victor Flora who went back to Brazil with his tail between his legs, or Besian Idrizaj who died.

It was said at the time that many of these players were brought in to provide competition for the local boys, and under Ablett they were a very successful U19 side who are now starting to break into the senior side.

Umm yes, my comment was indeed a more generic claim about the Finnish and Icelandic kids that Benitez randomly signed a few years ago...it was about the accumulated transfers out that you've had this summer: Ayala, Pacheco, Insua, Gulacsi, etc. etc. Not just specific to Insua.

Seems quite a roundabout way of going about things though - "to improve our local kids, let's blow a shitload of money on some foreign ones" Couldn't you still achieve that anyway with better coaching, like Benitez also implemented, which I think has much more benefit than signing randoms.

Come on kas clearly Miki Roque and Emmanuel Mendy made Flanagan and Robinson into the players they are today.

fcb wrote:Umm yes, my comment was indeed a more generic claim about the Finnish and Icelandic kids that Benitez randomly signed a few years ago...it was about the accumulated transfers out that you've had this summer: Ayala, Pacheco, Insua, Gulacsi, etc. etc. Not just specific to Insua.

Seems quite a roundabout way of going about things though - "to improve our local kids, let's blow a shitload of money on some foreign ones" Couldn't you still achieve that anyway with better coaching, like Benitez also implemented, which I think has much more benefit than signing randoms.

do you even know how many of these "random" players there were? It's really not as a many as you think.

How do you know what the scouting policy was? Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Glemon Party wrote:

fcb wrote:Umm yes, my comment was indeed a more generic claim about the Finnish and Icelandic kids that Benitez randomly signed a few years ago...it was about the accumulated transfers out that you've had this summer: Ayala, Pacheco, Insua, Gulacsi, etc. etc. Not just specific to Insua.

Seems quite a roundabout way of going about things though - "to improve our local kids, let's blow a shitload of money on some foreign ones" Couldn't you still achieve that anyway with better coaching, like Benitez also implemented, which I think has much more benefit than signing randoms.

do you even know how many of these "random" players there were? It's really not as a many as you think.

How do you know what the scouting policy was? Do you know something the rest of us don't?

How do you know what the scouting policy was? Did Benitez call you and tell you his theory that he's signed these foreign kids to improve the English kids?


Kids (under 23 at the time of signing) signed by Liverpool since 2004, but have not (yet, in some cases) become first team regulars:

Arnaud Buhler
Gregory Vignal
Alou Diarra
Jon Otsemobor
Robbie Foy
Carl Medjani
David Martin
Antonio Barragan
Miki Roque
Ramon Calliste
Besian Idrizaj
Anthony Le Tallec
David Raven
Nabil El Zhar
Sebastien Leto
Gabriel Paletta
Astrit Ajdarevic
Dean Bouzanis
Godwin Antwi
Danielle Padelli
Lee Peltier
Damien Plessis
Kristian Nemeth
Nikolay Mihailov
Andreas Simon
Peter Gulacsi
Lauri Dalla Valle
Dani Pacheco
Ryan Flynn
Nathan Eccleston
Stephen Darby
Danny Wilson
Thomas Ince
David Amoo

How do you know what the scouting policy was? Did Benitez call you and tell you his theory that he's signed these foreign kids to improve the English kids?

No, he said it in press conferences a few times when asked.

so you found 34 players in 7 years, a third of whom were trainees - some of them were even Liverpool born.

Arnaud Buhler? Are you sure?

Of the 20 odd who weren't trainees or frees you've got some Houllier signings which presumably shouldn't be included in your argument (Vignal, Diarra, Le Tallec, Medjani) a couple of budget squad players (Plessis, El Zhar) leaving you with 15 or so players half of who are still at the club.

Have you just pwned yourself?

There's a few more in this list:

Fernando Torres
Robbie Keane
Ryan Babel
Xabi Alonso
Dirk Kuyt
Albert Riera
Andrea Dossena
Peter Crouch
Lucas Leiva
Jermaine Pennant
Martin Skrtel
Craig Bellamy
Luis Garcia
Jose Reina
Dan Agger
Mohammed Sissoko
Fernando Morientes
Yossi Benayoun
Diego Cavalieri
Alvaro Arbeloa
Sebastian Leto
Jose Miguel Gonzalez
Gabriel Paletta
Mark Gonzalez
David Ngog
Scott Carson
Mikel San Jose
David Martin
Antonio Barragan
Besian Idrizaj
Jack Hobbs
Alex Cooper
Alexander Kacaniklic
Krisztian Nemeth
Andras Simon
Victor Palsson
Gary Mackay Steven
Vitor Flora
Andriy Voronin
Nikolay Mihaylov
Emmanuel Mendy
Marvin Pourie
Dani Pacheco
Nikola Saric
Lauri Dalla Valle
Gerardo Bruna
Hakan Duyan
Damien Plessis
Peter Gulacsi
Charles Itandje
Philipp Degen
Vincent Lucas
Ryan Crowther
Mihail Alexandrov
Robbie Fowler
Ryan Wilkie
Javier Mascherano
Miki Roque
Nabir El Zhar
Mark Smyth
Jay Smith
Stephen Darby
Craig Lindfield
Adam Hammill
Danny Guthrie
Paul Anderson
Lee Peltier
Fabio Aurelio
Jan Kromkamp
Boudewijn Zenden
Mauricio Pellegrino
Godwin Antwi
Robbie Threlfall
Ryan Flynn
Calum Woods
Paul Willis
Danny O'Donnell
Ramon Calliste
Steve Irwin
Martin Kelly
Ronald Huth
Jordy Brouwer
Francisco Manuel Duran
Emiliano Insua
Ray Putterill
Martin Hansen
Jay Spearing
Dave Roberts
David Mannix
Antonio Nunez


And 1 or 2 here others here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221975/Rafa-Benitezs-229m-spending-spree-The-76-players-signed-Liverpool-managers-reign.html

But yes, my original point still stands: #scattergun

I don't really know what your criteria is here? If we're talking about players who weren't signed for the senior squad I can count perhaps <30 players in 6 years, many of whom are still at the club, while others narrowly missed out at elite level while still having a decent career. I don't think anybody could call it a major success, but it wasn't such a failure that you could suggest it was a bad policy. As for "scattergun" I don't really know what you mean by that, there clearly aren't enough failures to suggest that.

Kas - you have it wrong... it's actually #trialanderror... and there's nothing wrong with that if the players are relatively cheap and the ones that failed to make it could be be sold at a minimal loss. We started implementing a similar strategy in Tottenham around 2004 and we improved because of it.

As Glenda says "You've got to kiss a few frogs to find a prince"

It's just a shit strategy for the young players involved. Hence the last thing a promising young player should do is to move to one of those big club academies. For most of them, it's a waste of time and often a career killing decision even.

blutgraetsche wrote:It's just a shit strategy for the young players involved. Hence the last thing a promising young player should do is to move to one of those big club academies. For most of them, it's a waste of time and often a career killing decision even.

BL Vs EPL
Sausages Vs Pies
Good Vs Evil
Mullets Vs Beer bellies
Your dad Vs my dad