Francesco Totti- Golden Shoe Winner 2007!

Also Delps seems like a nice chap, whereas Totti just seems like an obnoxious fuckwit. Some of the comments he was coming out with before the Utd game just went to show what an idiot he is

Rez wrote:

gone wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

Lucas Deano Neill wrote:

Totti has a message for Tweedle...the message reads

"Dear Tweedle, f@ck You!"

Well he managed to turn up against the likes of Siena and Reggina - bully for him

Been invisible for the majority of the CL games I've seen him in though

When I said the same thing about C.ROnaldo - Kaka some people said League >>> CL.

Ronaldo won the league for united, Totti won the Copa Italia for Roma, hence the league argument.



Totti apart from a final he lost 7 years ago, has choked in every big game he has played, outside of Italy.



I think the problem for Totti (and Zlatan) is that everytime he is on UK TV, he has been awful.



I think the likes of Del Piero have a bigger reputation in England, because he used to be amazing in the CL, as well as the Italian league.

Totti did got Roma the second place. Sure, not the same thing but Roma isn't United. BTW, just to clear this is not a Totti vs Ronaldo thing. Your player has better this year, no question there. Is just that Tweedle used the same thing (i.e. he played against weaker domestic teams) as I used in the Kaka vs Ronaldo thread.

gone wrote:

Rez wrote:

gone wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

Lucas Deano Neill wrote:

Totti has a message for Tweedle...the message reads

"Dear Tweedle, f@ck You!"

Well he managed to turn up against the likes of Siena and Reggina - bully for him

Been invisible for the majority of the CL games I've seen him in though

When I said the same thing about C.ROnaldo - Kaka some people said League >>> CL.

Ronaldo won the league for united, Totti won the Copa Italia for Roma, hence the league argument.



Totti apart from a final he lost 7 years ago, has choked in every big game he has played, outside of Italy.



I think the problem for Totti (and Zlatan) is that everytime he is on UK TV, he has been awful.



I think the likes of Del Piero have a bigger reputation in England, because he used to be amazing in the CL, as well as the Italian league.

Totti did got Roma the second place. Sure, not the same thing but Roma isn't United. BTW, just to clear this is not a Totti vs Ronaldo thing. Your player has better this year, no question there. Is just that Tweedle used the same thing (i.e. he played against weaker domestic teams) as I used in the Kaka vs Ronaldo thread.

Fair enough, as I have said earlier in Seri A, totti has done some wonderful things and scored some great goals. But everytime we (English) see him he has been terrible (he is either spitting at someone, complaining or doing nothing).

Look at how much praise Kaka has recieved from the English press, he hasnt been as good as Totti in the league, but he showed his class in the CL. Thats all most people watch outside of the Premiership, so most cant understand why the Italians praise him so much.

With Channel 5 securing the TV contract for Seri A, I think Totti (and Zlatans) reputation will increase amonst English posters.

Rez wrote:

gone wrote:

Tweedle wrote:

Lucas Deano Neill wrote:

Totti has a message for Tweedle...the message reads

"Dear Tweedle, f@ck You!"

Well he managed to turn up against the likes of Siena and Reggina - bully for him

Been invisible for the majority of the CL games I've seen him in though

When I said the same thing about C.ROnaldo - Kaka some people said League >>> CL.

Ronaldo won the league for united, Totti won the Copa Italia for Roma, hence the league argument.



Totti apart from a final he lost 7 years ago, has choked in every big game he has played, outside of Italy.

You class Madrid, Valencia, Lyon and Kaiserslautern as Italy ?

Anyway - whilst Totti plays $h!t in some big games it is because he hasn't got the mobility to escape tight-marking.

To call him a choker is laughable - you have seen his pens v Holland and Australia haven't you ?

Madrid and Valencia were in the group stages, Lyon was in the second round and as for Kaiserslautern .

Regarding mobilty, he is about as fast as Zidane and it never held him back.

His penalty versus Holland was good, but after watching Holland miss 2 penalties in normal time and then Stam and Bosvelt take the worst penalties the world has seen, he knew he could afford to miss and Italy would still progress. So there was no pressure on him to score .

His penalty against Australia was very good and showed great spirit. However the last time I checked Australia were not a good team.

I cant be bothered to get into a Totti debate, we had one of those before the united v Roma game. I think that debate ended in the second leg; when Roma were 6-0 down and the camera panned to Totti after he lashed his fourth shot off target, and the crowd were chanting "totti, totti, whats the score" and "who are you".

Pierre, Totti is a very good player in Seri A, however outside of that he has only ever impressed me once (Euro 2000 final)

Rez wrote:Madrid and Valencia were in the group stages, Lyon was in the second round and as for Kaiserslautern .



Regarding mobilty, he is about as fast as Zidane and it never held him back.



His penalty versus Holland was good, but after watching Holland miss 2 penalties in normal time and then Stam and Bosvelt take the worst penalties the world has seen, he knew he could afford to miss and Italy would still progress. So there was no pressure on him to score .



His penalty against Australia was very good and showed great spirit. However the last time I checked Australia were not a good team.



I cant be bothered to get into a Totti debate, we had one of those before the united v Roma game. I think that debate ended in the second leg; when Roma were 6-0 down and the camera panned to Totti after he lashed his fourth shot off target, and the crowd were chanting "totti, totti, whats the score" and "who are you".



Pierre, Totti is a very good player in Seri A, however outside of that he has only ever impressed me once (Euro 2000 final)

I prefer to remember how Milan humiliated you at the San Siro. That one was also for Totti.

I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

Like I said though, Man Utd's squad was a joke - even their die hard fans before the tie were conceding that they were effectively out, and that proved to be the case.

Roma though probably felt thay had a really good chance of it, and even in that game, utd didn't have a particularly strong squad - with players like Smith and Fletcher starting (who are both regarded as comical figures, or at least had been until that game)

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

I dont think Totti took any satisfaction out of Milan beating united. The same way Rooney took no satisfaction when Liverpool beat Milan in the 2005 final.

Personally I would rather lose 5-3 on agg, than 8-3. If you want to use that logic Roma finished second, ahead of Milan. United lost badly against Milan, but we had half our first team missing and actually bothered with the league. Were as Milan had a full team and only really turned up in CL matches. It was like racing against an athlete who had just completed a marathon.

Rez wrote:Madrid and Valencia were in the group stages, Lyon was in the second round and as for Kaiserslautern .



Regarding mobilty, he is about as fast as Zidane and it never held him back.



His penalty versus Holland was good, but after watching Holland miss 2 penalties in normal time and then Stam and Bosvelt take the worst penalties the world has seen, he knew he could afford to miss and Italy would still progress. So there was no pressure on him to score .



His penalty against Australia was very good and showed great spirit. However the last time I checked Australia were not a good team.



I cant be bothered to get into a Totti debate, we had one of those before the united v Roma game. I think that debate ended in the second leg; when Roma were 6-0 down and the camera panned to Totti after he lashed his fourth shot off target, and the crowd were chanting "totti, totti, whats the score" and "who are you".



Pierre, Totti is a very good player in Seri A, however outside of that he has only ever impressed me once (Euro 2000 final)

so what if they were in the group stage, they still count! Madrid were more or less the best side in Europe back then. Valencia hadnt lost in the Mestalla for god knows how long, yet Totti ripped them apart, 2 goals and an assist.

@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Rez wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

I dont think Totti took any satisfaction out of Milan beating united. The same way Rooney took no satisfaction when Liverpool beat Milan in the 2005 final.



Personally I would rather lose 5-3 on agg, than 8-3. If you want to use that logic Roma finished second, ahead of Milan. United lost badly against Milan, but we had half our first team missing and actually bothered with the league. Were as Milan had a full team and only really turned up in CL matches. It was like racing against an athlete who had just completed a marathon.

Maybe United should get better backup defenders then?

Man Utd sent two defenders on loan bobi - Piqué and Evans, who will both be back next season.

No team can plan for three first team defenders being injured - I'm sure that most teams don't have enough cover to account for three of the back four being out

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Rez wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

I dont think Totti took any satisfaction out of Milan beating united. The same way Rooney took no satisfaction when Liverpool beat Milan in the 2005 final.



Personally I would rather lose 5-3 on agg, than 8-3. If you want to use that logic Roma finished second, ahead of Milan. United lost badly against Milan, but we had half our first team missing and actually bothered with the league. Were as Milan had a full team and only really turned up in CL matches. It was like racing against an athlete who had just completed a marathon.

Maybe United should get better backup defenders then?

Pique is returning as the 3rd CB

If only Man United had Essien

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Rez wrote:Madrid and Valencia were in the group stages, Lyon was in the second round and as for Kaiserslautern .



Regarding mobilty, he is about as fast as Zidane and it never held him back.



His penalty versus Holland was good, but after watching Holland miss 2 penalties in normal time and then Stam and Bosvelt take the worst penalties the world has seen, he knew he could afford to miss and Italy would still progress. So there was no pressure on him to score .



His penalty against Australia was very good and showed great spirit. However the last time I checked Australia were not a good team.



I cant be bothered to get into a Totti debate, we had one of those before the united v Roma game. I think that debate ended in the second leg; when Roma were 6-0 down and the camera panned to Totti after he lashed his fourth shot off target, and the crowd were chanting "totti, totti, whats the score" and "who are you".



Pierre, Totti is a very good player in Seri A, however outside of that he has only ever impressed me once (Euro 2000 final)

so what if they were in the group stage, they still count! Madrid were more or less the best side in Europe back then. Valencia hadnt lost in the Mestalla for god knows how long, yet Totti ripped them apart, 2 goals and an assist.

Bobo, its aimed at Pierre as he always rubbished RVN and Henrys CL achievements because they scored lots of goals in the group stage and only used to talk about the K.O stage, being relevant as it was the true test. So I using Pierres own criteria to dismiss Tottis achievements.

I explained to gone earlier that i thought Totti was a good player, but he has been rubbish in every game he has played on english tv (apart from the Euro 2000 final). So its understandable that people call him a choker, as the Italians all rave about him, but when he has played in a big game he does nothing to justify the hype.

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

well no he hasnt!

But thats no reason for educated fans like you and rez to doubt his abilities. Maybe some ignorant fan who gets all his footy information from the pub would say this, but i'd expect you and rez to have watched more than his CL games vs EPL teams.

Zidane was pretty average against Serie A teams (whilst playing for Madrid), doesnt make him any less of a player.

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

Tweedle wrote:Man Utd sent two defenders on loan bobi - Piqué and Evans, who will both be back next season.

No team can plan for three first team defenders being injured - I'm sure that most teams don't have enough cover to account for three of the back four being out

Milan have Kaladze and Bonera as backup. IMO these 2 would be starters in mot other clubs.

Milan infact had something like 5 defenders injured for the CL qualifying stage, and none of the other players were match fit.

Rez wrote:

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

2 assists didnt play against Boro either.

But yeah i take your point, he's been Cr@p against english sides, but surely you guys have seen him in other matches?

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Rez wrote:

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

2 assists didnt play against Boro either.

But yeah i take your point, he's been Cr@p against english sides, but surely you guys have seen him in other matches?

I think to rate a player properly is to watch him consistently in their own league.

Rez wrote:

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

@Rez

Totti: "I will be supporting Milan against Manchester United all the way."

If you have the 3 defender excuse, Roma can say that everything went right for you guys, and everything went wrong for us. You know, it's just one of those things.

You brought it up btw, by laughing at Totti. This was supposed to be a thread about his achievement, and you turned it into how he is a big choker.

@ bobi

I've seen Totti in the league + a splattering of CL games - I remember him when he first broke through in Serie A and he looked fantastic back then, scoring some brilliant goals, but since then he's turned into an arrogant primadonna - and it is this that frustrates me.

Plenty of players haven't performed in the CL but not many of those have then previous to a game made comments about a nationality and their league ridiculing it like totti did before the Roma-Utd game

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Rez wrote:

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Rez wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

I dont think Totti took any satisfaction out of Milan beating united. The same way Rooney took no satisfaction when Liverpool beat Milan in the 2005 final.



Personally I would rather lose 5-3 on agg, than 8-3. If you want to use that logic Roma finished second, ahead of Milan. United lost badly against Milan, but we had half our first team missing and actually bothered with the league. Were as Milan had a full team and only really turned up in CL matches. It was like racing against an athlete who had just completed a marathon.

Maybe United should get better backup defenders then?

I'm not sure they can attract them to be honest.

They've won the title by default due to internal problems at Chelsea and lost nearly all their away games in Europe - if you're a player wanting to win a big domestic title or the CL they're not a very good bet.

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Tweedle wrote:Man Utd sent two defenders on loan bobi - Piqué and Evans, who will both be back next season.

No team can plan for three first team defenders being injured - I'm sure that most teams don't have enough cover to account for three of the back four being out

Milan have Kaladze and Bonera as backup. IMO these 2 would be starters in mot other clubs.

Milan infact had something like 5 defenders injured for the CL qualifying stage, and none of the other players were match fit.

At some point we also had 15(!!) players on the injured list when we were getting raped in the beginning of the Serie A and Nesta only came back in the Bayern game after an operation and months of rehabilitation in Miami.

But anyway, assuming we had 3 starting defenders missing (let's say Oddo,Maldini and Nesta), we would have played Jankulovski-Kaladze-Simic-Bonera or Cafu instead of Simic and move Bonera to the centre of defence. Not so bad IMO.

But anyway, im not trying to wind up the Man U fans here, on the contrary i think they are a great team and i wish them the best.

Agooner wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Rez wrote:

Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

Nearly as funny as Henry having a blinder in Euro 2000 final ?

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

BoBo Vieri wrote:

Rez wrote:

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:

Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury

A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.

I dont think Totti took any satisfaction out of Milan beating united. The same way Rooney took no satisfaction when Liverpool beat Milan in the 2005 final.



Personally I would rather lose 5-3 on agg, than 8-3. If you want to use that logic Roma finished second, ahead of Milan. United lost badly against Milan, but we had half our first team missing and actually bothered with the league. Were as Milan had a full team and only really turned up in CL matches. It was like racing against an athlete who had just completed a marathon.

Maybe United should get better backup defenders then?

I'm not sure they can attract them to be honest.

They've won the title by default due to internal problems at Chelsea and lost nearly all their away games in Europe - if you're a player wanting to win a big domestic title or the CL they're not a very good bet.

What internal problems at Chelsea ?