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    Francesco Totti- Golden Shoe Winner 2007!

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    Rez


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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:56 pm

    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this

    well no he hasnt!

    But thats no reason for educated fans like you and rez to doubt his abilities. Maybe some ignorant fan who gets all his footy information from the pub would say this, but i'd expect you and rez to have watched more than his CL games vs EPL teams.

    Zidane was pretty average against Serie A teams (whilst playing for Madrid), doesnt make him any less of a player.

    Bobo in the group stages of CL, mine and tweeds teams are usually playing, so you watch the match highlights of the other game. Also in the group stages anything can happen and good teams often lose to poorer teams, so when it happens you dont really take much notice of it. Also you only really watch different K.O rounds games if its a big match and until recently you could only watch the games with English teams.

    I remember watching the highlights of the Madrid v Roma game and thinking Roma played really well, but its just a one off, which it was as I dont think they got to the quarter finals.

    We are not doubting his abilty, just his abilty to perform in big matches.

    As for Zidane, he scored 2 goals in a WC final, was amazing in Euro 2000 scored that goal in the CL final and has been outstanding everytime he has been on TV (apart from against Arsenal last season and united in 99). His reputation cannot be questioned.

    You can only judge a player from what you have seen and there is only so much football you can watch, that doesnt involve your club. I am sure if I followed Roma and watched every game he has played in for 8 years, I would have a different opinion of him.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:58 pm

    mihawkavelli wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:I think losing 7-1 is far more of a humiliation than 3-0, especially as Utd had 3 of their first choice defenders out and the other one had literally just returned from a 3 month injury Rolling Eyes

    A 3-0 defeat, nay, a 3-0 skinning of the prospective English Champions is a far greater achievement. Remember Roma are the 4th force in the country at best.



    I dont think Totti took any satisfaction out of Milan beating united. The same way Rooney took no satisfaction when Liverpool beat Milan in the 2005 final.



    Personally I would rather lose 5-3 on agg, than 8-3. If you want to use that logic Roma finished second, ahead of Milan. United lost badly against Milan, but we had half our first team missing and actually bothered with the league. Were as Milan had a full team and only really turned up in CL matches. It was like racing against an athlete who had just completed a marathon.

    Maybe United should get better backup defenders then?

    I'm not sure they can attract them to be honest.

    They've won the title by default due to internal problems at Chelsea and lost nearly all their away games in Europe - if you're a player wanting to win a big domestic title or the CL they're not a very good bet.

    What internal problems at Chelsea ?

    Er - arguments between Mourinho and Roman which meant Jose couldn't but a CB during the window.

    Count the number of points Chelsea dropped when Essien and/or Ferreira played CB - it cost them the title.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:59 pm

    mihawkavelli wrote:
    What internal problems at Chelsea ?

    The Mourinho-Abramovich rift I guess.

    Would have been better to pick up on Cech's and Terry's injuries. That was the REAL reason that Chelsea lost the title
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:01 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    mihawkavelli wrote:
    What internal problems at Chelsea ?

    The Mourinho-Abramovich rift I guess.

    Would have been better to pick up on Cech's and Terry's injuries. That was the REAL reason that Chelsea lost the title

    If they'd had another back up CB they wouldn't have missed Terry.
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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:02 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this



    Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

    He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

    We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

    Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

    He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

    Was that the game Henry scored a Hatrick and Arseanl won 3-0?

    I dont remember him doing much against Germany, I remember Pirlo being very good.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:02 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this



    Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

    He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

    We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

    Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

    He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

    Laugh

    Nearly as funny as Henry having a blinder in Euro 2000 final ? Smile

    All i remember totti doing in Germany was scoring that penalty vs australia and being subbed off in the final after having another shocking performance.

    And u say he had a blinder vs Germany? Laugh
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan!
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:03 pm

    Let's not forget that this thread is about a Campione Del Mondo, Totti.

    Francesco Totti- Golden Shoe Winner 2007! - Page 3 Xinsrc10
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:04 pm

    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this



    Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

    He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

    We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

    Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

    He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

    Laugh

    Nearly as funny as Henry having a blinder in Euro 2000 final ? Smile

    All i remember totti doing in Germany was scoring that penalty vs australia and being subbed off in the final after having another shocking performance.

    And u say he had a blinder vs Germany? Laugh

    If a number 10 creates 2 or 3 great chances in a semi final he's had a blinder for me.
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:05 pm

    So by Rooney scoring two in the CL semi final - he technically had a stormer Wink
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    Post by Machiavel Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:06 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    mihawkavelli wrote:
    What internal problems at Chelsea ?

    The Mourinho-Abramovich rift I guess.

    Would have been better to pick up on Cech's and Terry's injuries. That was the REAL reason that Chelsea lost the title

    True.

    Still , Manchester United took advantage and bought the Title back Home
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    Post by The Pröfessör Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:06 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this



    Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

    He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

    We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

    Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

    He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

    Laugh

    Nearly as funny as Henry having a blinder in Euro 2000 final ? Smile

    All i remember totti doing in Germany was scoring that penalty vs australia and being subbed off in the final after having another shocking performance.

    And u say he had a blinder vs Germany? Laugh

    If a number 10 creates 2 or 3 great chances in a semi final he's had a blinder for me.

    so ronaldinho had a blinder in last year's CL final?
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:07 pm

    Tweedle wrote:So by Rooney scoring two in the CL semi final - he technically had a stormer Wink

    In the 1st leg he was excellent.

    Sadly - there are 2 legs.

    He wasn't to blame for the 2nd leg in anyway though as United just played long high balls to him.
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:08 pm

    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this



    Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

    He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

    We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

    Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

    He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

    Laugh

    Nearly as funny as Henry having a blinder in Euro 2000 final ? Smile

    All i remember totti doing in Germany was scoring that penalty vs australia and being subbed off in the final after having another shocking performance.

    And u say he had a blinder vs Germany? Laugh

    If a number 10 creates 2 or 3 great chances in a semi final he's had a blinder for me.

    so ronaldinho had a blinder in last year's CL final?

    For me ? Yes.
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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:08 pm

    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:@Rez

    Totti: "I will be supporting Milan against Manchester United all the way."

    If you have the 3 defender excuse, Roma can say that everything went right for you guys, and everything went wrong for us. You know, it's just one of those things.

    You brought it up btw, by laughing at Totti. This was supposed to be a thread about his achievement, and you turned it into how he is a big choker.

    Well thats nice of him to support Milan, but I think he would have preferred to have beaten united himself tahn root for a domestic rival to do what he couldnt do. Its a bit like your little sister fighting your battles for you Very Happy

    We were missing 4 first team players against Roma, so it certainly didnt go all our way. I only mentioned injuries as you thought losing 3-0 was worse than losing 7-1. Before the united v Milan tie, I and many other united fans said we will lose and Milan will go through due to the injuries.

    Anyway its in the past and you're the European champions. Hopefuly next season we can play you with a full team and settle the score.
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    Post by The Pröfessör Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:10 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Agooner wrote:
    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Tweedle wrote:@ bobi

    totti generally does well verses La liga teams, its just EPL teams.

    I honestly don't think he's ever scored a goal against ANY english team - for either club or country, though I am willing to be corrected on this



    Thats one of the reasons why no one in England really rates him. I think he has played against Leeds, Liverpool, Arsenal, United and maybe Boro and has done nothing of note in any of the games.

    He didn't play either against 'boro and he cut Arsenal to ribbons in the Olimpico but poor finishing from team-mates and a bad call from the ref saw them lose.

    We'll never know if he would have played well at Highbury thanks to Keown.

    Kaiserslautern was a reference to Australia not Kaiserslautern the club so you're laughter was misplaced.

    He also set up the most goals in the WC and had an absolute blinder v Germany in the semi on their own turf despite being nowhere near full fitness.

    Laugh

    Nearly as funny as Henry having a blinder in Euro 2000 final ? Smile

    All i remember totti doing in Germany was scoring that penalty vs australia and being subbed off in the final after having another shocking performance.

    And u say he had a blinder vs Germany? Laugh

    If a number 10 creates 2 or 3 great chances in a semi final he's had a blinder for me.

    so ronaldinho had a blinder in last year's CL final?

    For me ? Yes.

    Laugh

    I finally got the trick:

    A player having a blinder for Pierre = him having a shocker for everone else ok
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:17 pm

    Rez wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:@Rez

    Totti: "I will be supporting Milan against Manchester United all the way."

    If you have the 3 defender excuse, Roma can say that everything went right for you guys, and everything went wrong for us. You know, it's just one of those things.

    You brought it up btw, by laughing at Totti. This was supposed to be a thread about his achievement, and you turned it into how he is a big choker.



    Well thats nice of him to support Milan, but I think he would have preferred to have beaten united himself tahn root for a domestic rival to do what he couldnt do. Its a bit like your little sister fighting your battles for you Very Happy



    We were missing 4 first team players against Roma, so it certainly didnt go all our way. I only mentioned injuries as you thought losing 3-0 was worse than losing 7-1. Before the united v Milan tie, I and many other united fans said we will lose and Milan will go through due to the injuries.



    Anyway its in the past and you're the European champions. Hopefuly next season we can play you with a full team and settle the score.

    to be fair, Roma were missing 4 first team players aswell.
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:21 pm

    Come on guys this is getting stupid,

    Totti did have a very good game against Germany, he created alot of chances for Italy. Just because he didnt score doesnt mean he was Cr@p.

    @ Rez

    credit to you,

    at least you have the balls to admit that you maybe havnt seen enough of Totti to judge him properly. ok
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:22 pm

    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:@Rez

    Totti: "I will be supporting Milan against Manchester United all the way."

    If you have the 3 defender excuse, Roma can say that everything went right for you guys, and everything went wrong for us. You know, it's just one of those things.

    You brought it up btw, by laughing at Totti. This was supposed to be a thread about his achievement, and you turned it into how he is a big choker.



    Well thats nice of him to support Milan, but I think he would have preferred to have beaten united himself tahn root for a domestic rival to do what he couldnt do. Its a bit like your little sister fighting your battles for you Very Happy



    We were missing 4 first team players against Roma, so it certainly didnt go all our way. I only mentioned injuries as you thought losing 3-0 was worse than losing 7-1. Before the united v Milan tie, I and many other united fans said we will lose and Milan will go through due to the injuries.



    Anyway its in the past and you're the European champions. Hopefuly next season we can play you with a full team and settle the score.

    to be fair, Roma were missing 4 first team players aswell.

    Spread out across the team though.

    Having three missing from one area can really hurt you.

    Who exactly were Roma missing aside from Tonetto and Perotta?
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    Post by BoBo Vieri 32 Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:28 pm

    Tweedle wrote:
    BoBo Vieri wrote:
    Rez wrote:
    Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:@Rez

    Totti: "I will be supporting Milan against Manchester United all the way."

    If you have the 3 defender excuse, Roma can say that everything went right for you guys, and everything went wrong for us. You know, it's just one of those things.

    You brought it up btw, by laughing at Totti. This was supposed to be a thread about his achievement, and you turned it into how he is a big choker.



    Well thats nice of him to support Milan, but I think he would have preferred to have beaten united himself tahn root for a domestic rival to do what he couldnt do. Its a bit like your little sister fighting your battles for you Very Happy



    We were missing 4 first team players against Roma, so it certainly didnt go all our way. I only mentioned injuries as you thought losing 3-0 was worse than losing 7-1. Before the united v Milan tie, I and many other united fans said we will lose and Milan will go through due to the injuries.



    Anyway its in the past and you're the European champions. Hopefuly next season we can play you with a full team and settle the score.

    to be fair, Roma were missing 4 first team players aswell.

    Spread out across the team though.

    Having three missing from one area can really hurt you.

    Who exactly were Roma missing aside from Tonetto and Perotta?

    Taddei and Aquilani

    I'm not making excuses for Roma here, but i think the injuries hit them hard, not only because they have an extremely thin squad, but missing Perrotta Taddei and Aquilani meant they had to pull Totti back deeper which meant they were playing with a system that they are not familiar with.

    Roma need to bulk up their squad if they are to start challenging for Serie A/CL.
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    Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:36 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWBRvMi_nzk

    Che bello Totti!
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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:46 pm

    BoBo Vieri wrote:Come on guys this is getting stupid,

    Totti did have a very good game against Germany, he created alot of chances for Italy. Just because he didnt score doesnt mean he was Cr@p.

    @ Rez

    credit to you,

    at least you have the balls to admit that you maybe havnt seen enough of Totti to judge him properly. ok

    Bobo this is the message board at its best, people airing their agendas.

    Obviously Totti isnt a rubbish player, but like the Henry debates he has his followers and he has his critics. Somewhere between the overtop statements is the truth.

    There is no better way to rile the Italians and Pierre, than by questioning Tottis abilty on the big stage.

    The English will always question him (partly in jest) this wont change untill he plays well against an English side, the same with Henry. He will need to score in a final to silence the detractors.

    However since none of the above has happened yet, sit back and enjoy it.
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    Post by bluenine Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:46 pm

    Bobo, its quite pointless... some of these guys haven't seen Totti play even in the CL (prior to ManU games) forget Serie A. Talking to these guys about Serie A is almost like talking to americans about EPL... I am sure there will be many in Texas who don't rate C Ronaldo this season Wink

    If these guys had watched some Italian football, we wouldn't have this arguement. Totti was MOTM 4 times this season in the CL, next to only Kaka. In Serie A there are some big games too, and Totti played brilliantly. Totti has been as much of a choker as C Ronaldo this season... my only advise is to please watch some football before making such rash judgements.

    BoBo Vieri wrote:Come on guys this is getting stupid,

    Totti did have a very good game against Germany, he created alot of chances for Italy. Just because he didnt score doesnt mean he was Cr@p.

    @ Rez

    credit to you,

    at least you have the balls to admit that you maybe havnt seen enough of Totti to judge him properly. ok
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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:00 pm

    @Blue

    Totti has played 4 English sides over the years and has done nothing to change peoples perception that he is an petulant player, who chokes in the big games :-).

    Ronaldo is 22 and has played well in two international tournaments, as well as alot of CL games. Totti is almost 30 and still trying to get used to how to play in a big game, when blood is constantly gushing out of his nose :-).

    The Texans will rate Ronaldo as they would have seen him do a a few step overs in a Nike promotional video, in the local Nike superstore. They will rate him as the line dancing Texans really appreciate quick feet ;-).
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    Post by Pierre Littbarski Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:13 pm

    Rez wrote:@Blue

    Totti has played 4 English sides over the years and has done nothing to change peoples perception that he is an petulant player, who chokes in the big games :-).

    Ronaldo is 22 and has played well in two international tournaments, as well as alot of CL games. Totti is almost 30 and still trying to get used to how to play in a big game, when blood is constantly gushing out of his nose :-).

    The Texans will rate Ronaldo as they would have seen him do a a few step overs in a Nike promotional video, in the local Nike superstore. They will rate him as the line dancing Texans really appreciate quick feet ;-).

    But if you think Totti doesn't have the ability or physical qualities for big games that's fine - but you do realise to call him a choker is completely laughable due to the pens v Aus and Holland ?
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    Post by bluenine Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:22 pm

    It is sad that you rate a guy who has played 370 Serie A games and 60 international games only on the 4 games he played against english opposition!!!

    If you had seen the big games in the 370 he played in Serie A, you would realise what a great big game player he is. Yeah, he is not a EVERY game player, no one is. But he is the reason why his team has been going through the most successful period of their entire history.... and for Roma, reaching the quarters of the CL is an achievement and Totti led them there.

    If CR repeats his performance in EPL for 5-6 years consecutively, then he will reach the stage where Totti is now.

    Rez wrote:@Blue

    Totti has played 4 English sides over the years and has done nothing to change peoples perception that he is an petulant player, who chokes in the big games :-).

    Ronaldo is 22 and has played well in two international tournaments, as well as alot of CL games. Totti is almost 30 and still trying to get used to how to play in a big game, when blood is constantly gushing out of his nose :-).

    The Texans will rate Ronaldo as they would have seen him do a a few step overs in a Nike promotional video, in the local Nike superstore. They will rate him as the line dancing Texans really appreciate quick feet ;-).
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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:28 pm

    Pierre Littbarski wrote:
    Rez wrote:@Blue

    Totti has played 4 English sides over the years and has done nothing to change peoples perception that he is an petulant player, who chokes in the big games :-).

    Ronaldo is 22 and has played well in two international tournaments, as well as alot of CL games. Totti is almost 30 and still trying to get used to how to play in a big game, when blood is constantly gushing out of his nose :-).

    The Texans will rate Ronaldo as they would have seen him do a a few step overs in a Nike promotional video, in the local Nike superstore. They will rate him as the line dancing Texans really appreciate quick feet ;-).

    But if you think Totti doesn't have the ability or physical qualities for big games that's fine - but you do realise to call him a choker is completely laughable due to the pens v Aus and Holland ?

    Choker is perhaps the wrong word, but for this messageboard it is the correct word. A talanted/highly rated player that consistantly under performs in big games is called a choker on this board.

    Totti has only impressed me once; Euro 2000 final and the Italians always rave about him (so he is highly rated). So from my point of view he has underperformed in the big games I have watched him play over the past 7 years. So using this logic, I can call him a big game choker.

    However in a real life context his penalty against Holland took loads of bottle and so did the one against Australia. So on those two ocassions he ignored the nose bleed and did the business.

    So if you beleive he has the mental toughness, do you think its lack of abilty that stops him affecting the biggest games?
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    Post by Rez Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:39 pm

    bluenine wrote:It is sad that you rate a guy who has played 370 Serie A games and 60 international games only on the 4 games he played against english opposition!!!

    If you had seen the big games in the 370 he played in Serie A, you would realise what a great big game player he is. Yeah, he is not a EVERY game player, no one is. But he is the reason why his team has been going through the most successful period of their entire history.... and for Roma, reaching the quarters of the CL is an achievement and Totti led them there.

    If CR repeats his performance in EPL for 5-6 years consecutively, then he will reach the stage where Totti is now.

    Rez wrote:@Blue

    Totti has played 4 English sides over the years and has done nothing to change peoples perception that he is an petulant player, who chokes in the big games :-).

    Ronaldo is 22 and has played well in two international tournaments, as well as alot of CL games. Totti is almost 30 and still trying to get used to how to play in a big game, when blood is constantly gushing out of his nose :-).

    The Texans will rate Ronaldo as they would have seen him do a a few step overs in a Nike promotional video, in the local Nike superstore. They will rate him as the line dancing Texans really appreciate quick feet ;-).

    Blue its 7/8 games against English sides. I have watched him play quite a few times over the past 8 years actually.

    I mentioned the games against English sides as the reason why English posters dont rate him as highly as you guys do. Not everyone has the time to watch every game in every league in the world. He has played on English TV at least 15 times over the years and he hasnt ever shown us what he can do.

    If someone doesnt play well in 16 matches that you have seen, you're not going to say he must be great, because I heard he is great. You make a decision from you see with your own eyes. Kaka has a high reputation in England, because he has actually played well, when people have watched him, the same way Messi had one after the game against Chelsea.

    Bluey my comments were made in jest and I dont think he is a rubbish player. However I will not rate him highly until he does something to make me believe this.

    As for Ronaldo he has been playing well at the highest stage since he was 19, he has done enough at the age of 22 to show, why he has the reputation he does.
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    Post by TM Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:59 pm

    Congrats Totti, you're lucky Ruud went off tho' ok
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    Post by merseyman Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:08 pm

    Rez wrote:
    Blue its 7/8 games against English sides. I have watched him play quite a few times over the past 8 years actually.

    I mentioned the games against English sides as the reason why English posters dont rate him as highly as you guys do. Not everyone has the time to watch every game in every league in the world. He has played on English TV at least 15 times over the years and he hasnt ever shown us what he can do.

    If someone doesnt play well in 16 matches that you have seen, you're not going to say he must be great, because I heard he is great. You make a decision from you see with your own eyes. Kaka has a high reputation in England, because he has actually played well, when people have watched him, the same way Messi had one after the game against Chelsea.

    Bluey my comments were made in jest and I dont think he is a rubbish player. However I will not rate him highly until he does something to make me believe this.

    As for Ronaldo he has been playing well at the highest stage since he was 19, he has done enough at the age of 22 to show, why he has the reputation he does.

    Couldn't have put it better myself... and I find it worrying that there are people who are unable to take this sort of logic on board. I formally crossed Totti off my list of "greats" when, after 3 or 4 mediocre games against EPL opposition (not forgetting various other substandard performances away from Italy...), I saw him totally humbled by Danny Murphy when Roma lost to Liverpool in the 2002-03 season. Actually, I'll add a bit of spice to the debate by pointing out that I also see Totti regularly in Italy. A fine shot (his goal against Samp was one of the best I've seen this season), two good feet, and excellent vision that allows him to pick out team-mates with first-time passes from all parts of the field (caveat: when playing in Serie A, and preferably at the Olimpico). But if that's enough to catapult him into the ranks of Ronaldinho, Kaka, Zidane et al (don't even get me started on Maradona or Pele... I''ve got a cup of coffee to finish!), then I give you one name: Matt Le Tissier.

    Le Tissier would regularly put in extraordinary performances for Southampton against BIG opposition (and Southampton were no Roma... they invariably struggled to avoid relegation), and won countless matches single-handed. Non-believers can just do the rounds on YouTube. Unlike Totti, Le Tissier never had the chance to produce the goods on the international stage. He picked up one international cap, and Southampton never played in Europe (not to my knowledge, anyway). But if you want someone who could be judged a genius for what he could do on his home patch, there's your man.

    Incidentally, Italian press and public always poo-pooed the Golden Shoe while it was being won by star strikers from the Scottish, Greek and Hungarian leagues. But now that every man and his dog is scoring goals for fun in Italy, it's become a highly important award. Between you and me, I don't think even Totti is particularly bowled over at having won it.

    P.S. Personally, I'm miffed that my 6-year old nephew was overlooked - he recently scored 15 goals in a 16-1 win for his school against their neighbours in a Brighton & Hove primary school league Wink


    Last edited by on Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Tweesus Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:17 pm

    Le Tissier was a far better player than Totti - le Tissier could do things that Totti could only dream of doing.

    It still bemuses me how he never got more opportunities for England.

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