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    Real Madrid C.F. 2008/09

    Jaime
    Jaime


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    Post by Jaime Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:21 pm

    Even if he doesn't become one of the five best players in the world (and I honestly think he will), how is that an argument to sell him? We've had numerous players in the past that were not exactly super stars, but fit in the team very well. Even in the games where he doesn't play very well, I think Robinho contributes to the team play. He's learn to play for the team and not just himself, which is something that the likes of Ronaldo and Robben have a lot of problems with.

    But we were told when he signed that we were getting a future WPOTY. Obviously, there are plenty of very good players who are useful to their teams that never reach the most elite level. But I just don't see how anyone can say "Robinho is untouchable". I also disagree about Robinho contributing when he is not playing great. I think there are plenty of games where Robinho is completely absent.

    You have to look at profit on a more relative level though. Think about the players that are out there in the market. The likes of Hleb and Joaquin would be cheaper, but a big risk. It's a good chance they will flop, so buying either of them for 20 million and saving 15 from Robinho's transfer may not be profit at all. We could get Quaresma for 35 m, but he's unproven in a big league and with Portugal, so it wouldn't make sense to trade him for Robinho.

    But are they likely to be any more of a flop than Robinho has. Ok, he hasn't been a complete flop. But anyone who thinks he has lived up to expectations is in denial. I agree about Quaresma, if we sell Robinho just to bring him then there is no point, especially for the cost. But like I said, there is no reason that we necessarily need to bring another winger if Schuster isn't going to play with two wingers anyhow. But the other thing is that his contract is up after the 09/10 season so if we keep him next year and he doesn't do anything, he will have no value because he'd be able to leave for free after one more season. If we are going to sell him now is the time.

    Personally, I care about the team. If tomorrow we get a 40 million Euro bid for Sneijder or a 30 million Euro bid for Higuain, does it mean we should sell them just because those figures are above what they are really worth right now? I don't see the logic in that. The way I see it, these players have been integral to our title win and they will only get better, so why sell them just to go look for other players in the market that may not adapt to us at all?


    I care about the team too but I just don't think Robinho has earned an "untouchable" status. If we got a good offer for Sneijder, I would consider it. The difference with Sneijder is he is just finished his first season. Robinho has been here for three already. And for Higuain, he has already shown that he is a big-game player. He's scored more big goals than Robinho has and he is younger and been here for less time. IMO there are no un-sellable players except for Casillas and Sergio Ramos.

    And who knows, after Spain's Euro triumph this year, Raul's exit from the starting lineup may come sooner than expected. I'm sure this will relieve Schuster from some pressure if he decided to bench Raul. So having Robinho and Higuain alternating as second strikers could work pretty well.

    If I thought there was a reasonable chance that Robinho would play as second striker then I would be inclined to give him another opportunity to prove himself.
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    Post by Cristiano Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:34 pm

    Torrente wrote:


    My biggest problem is the first season, we said - ok it's his first year in Europe. The team was kind of in chaos. Next season he'll really explode. Then his second season, we said - ok well Capello makes him defend to much. Next season he'll really explode. Last season we said, well he was really outstanding for two and a half months but then he got injured. Next season he'll really explode. How long do we wait for a player who was supposed to be "the next Pele"? Obviously we all knew it was hyperbole but he hasn't even come close to the expectations. Maybe in his first game in Cadiz.

    Even if he doesn't become one of the five best players in the world (and I honestly think he will), how is that an argument to sell him? We've had numerous players in the past that were not exactly super stars, but fit in the team very well. Even in the games where he doesn't play very well, I think Robinho contributes to the team play. He's learn to play for the team and not just himself, which is something that the likes of Ronaldo and Robben have a lot of problems with.



    They are hard to find, but it's not impossible. We bought Robinho for 24m. euro. The reason I think it is worth considering is because we would be making a profit of 12m. It's not about the money really but I think a valuation of 36m is more than what is warranted based on Robinho's first three years. So if Chelsea want to pay it, then I think we should consider it.

    You have to look at profit on a more relative level though. Think about the players that are out there in the market. The likes of Hleb and Joaquin would be cheaper, but a big risk. It's a good chance they will flop, so buying either of them for 20 million and saving 15 from Robinho's transfer may not be profit at all. We could get Quaresma for 35 m, but he's unproven in a big league and with Portugal, so it wouldn't make sense to trade him for Robinho.

    Personally, I care about the team. If tomorrow we get a 40 million Euro bid for Sneijder or a 30 million Euro bid for Higuain, does it mean we should sell them just because those figures are above what they are really worth right now? I don't see the logic in that. The way I see it, these players have been integral to our title win and they will only get better, so why sell them just to go look for other players in the market that may not adapt to us at all?




    He has had important contributions, there is no arguing that. His game winner at home to Sevilla in 06/07, the brace away to Recreativo last season. But for me, on the big big nights - Atletico, Barcelona, Valencia, Champions League - he has not had that performance where you say, yeah, this guy is one of the greatest players in the game. And I think the other thing is that with Brasil and Santos he played more as a second striker and he's never going to play there for Madrid.


    Maybe he hasn't been as good in the big games as he should, but I think he's done well in a good number of "big" games. This year against Valencia away, Barcelona at home 2 seasons ago, Villareal at home this season, etc.

    And who knows, after Spain's Euro triumph this year, Raul's exit from the starting lineup may come sooner than expected. I'm sure this will relieve Schuster from some pressure if he decided to bench Raul. So having Robinho and Higuain alternating as second strikers could work pretty well.

    You took the words out of my mind. I don't really like posting on comments about Robinho because people might assume i'm biased because of my name. Robinho's perfomance against Barca at the Bernabue last season was fantastic but rarely acknowledge because he didn't dribble past 10 players and score free-kick. People expect him to be selfish and brilliant(and this is in terms of dribbling and scoring) that when he is unselfish and contributes to the team play by creating chances for others and bieng involved in almost all the goals his perfomances are called poor. That perfomance in Cadiz was a curse.
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    Post by DeLux Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm

    I hate Robinho with a passion. Although he's able to score single handedly, he's a chupon of the highest order.
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    Post by Jaime Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:02 pm

    Latest signing for el Castilla: José Zamora Girona

    El Real Madrid Castilla ha empezado a reforzarse de cara a la próxima temporada, en la que volverá a luchar por disputar los Playoff de ascenso a Segunda División. José Zamora, centrocampista diestro procedente del Espanyol B (la temporada pasada estuvo cedido en el Eibar), se ha convertido en el segundo fichaje del filial blanco tras la incorporación de Miquel Palanca (compañero en el filial catalán). Volcado en la banda derecha, es rápido y habilidoso, puede jugar en las dos bandas y tiene buen olfato de cara al gol. Ha sido internacional con las categorías inferiores de España y en 2007 fue campeón de Europa sub'19 en Austria.

    http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/es/1202739084599/noticia/Noticia/Jose_Zamora_vestira_de_blanco.htm

    Better than signing a bunch of polish guys, I guess....
    TM
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    Post by TM Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:19 pm

    Apparently CR cannot move to Real because Ramos f*cked his girlfriend a few months ago Biggrin

    http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=769733
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    Post by TM Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:40 pm

    Benfica and Real Madrid are locked in negotiations for goalkeeper Jordi Codina.

    Benfica have offered £800,000 for the third-choice shot-stopper, while Real are seeking closer to £1.5 million.

    Codina has already agreed personal terms with Benfica and is expected to move to Lisbon in the coming days.

    Meanwhile, Real are considering releasing midfielder Pablo Garcia from the final year of his contract. The Uruguay international has spent the last two seasons away on-loan at Celta Vigo and Real Murcia respectively.
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    Post by elbecko Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:14 pm

    Re: Robinho, I personally would like him to stay as long as he is wanting to stay and prove himself, and/or his sale is simply to finance the fantasy of Moron Calderon and Co. I would rather sell the Dutches at right price (for Robben at big loss as he was so f**king over priced to start with).

    The club is not helping the situation, when you think they don't allow Heinze to go to Olympics but have no problem with Robinho going. (That's telling... IMO)

    Jaime wrote:
    And who knows, after Spain's Euro triumph this year, Raul's exit from the starting lineup may come sooner than expected. I'm sure this will relieve Schuster from some pressure if he decided to bench Raul. So having Robinho and Higuain alternating as second strikers could work pretty well.

    If I thought there was a reasonable chance that Robinho would play as second striker then I would be inclined to give him another opportunity to prove himself.

    I'd give more chance to Baptista as a second striker role as he did well at Mallorca, though I'd like to see Higuain gatting that role more. Raul will always be untouchable among the management, especially with current one, which means that Scheister who is one of the champion rimmers in the club, will never go against.
    TM
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    Post by TM Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:57 pm

    I agree with the olympics stuff, its obvious no one gives a $h!t about Robinho.

    I'm unsure about Baptista, he doesnt mind being a squad player, but is he good enough to play at Real?
    Since 1888
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    Post by Since 1888 Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:32 am

    So...you bought vdVaart?
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    Post by Black Magic Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:34 am

    Since 1888 wrote:So...you bought vdVaart?

    Eurosport News are running it as their headline.

    scratch
    TM
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    Post by TM Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:36 am

    Real Madrid are beginning to lose patience in their quest to prise Cristiano Ronaldo and are set to turn their attention to signing other players, like Hamburg's Rafael Van der Vaart.

    The incredible turnaround has come after los Merengues' own deadline of July 7 passed to sign the Portuguese star and they are now looking increasingly desperate.

    Marca have led the campaign in the media and now appear to be tired themselves of only having one story to report on a daily basis and actually appear to be conceding defeat.

    Their report on Thursday suggests that while Ronaldo has agreed personal terms with Madrid and stated his desire to move to them privately, nothing can happen until he tells Manchester United.

    Whether he has any intention of doing that does not bother the Madrid-biased paper because they are safe from being found out while Ronaldo recuperates from surgery in Portugal.

    "Manchester United already know that Cristiano Ronaldo wants to leave, but until the player tells them this officially he cannot go anywhere," an alleged source close to the club told Marca.

    The summer saga has dragged on and in Spain it is believed that United have asked for €100m and Madrid are not willing to pay more than €85m or meet some of the Premier League team's clauses.

    In England it is reported that no price has been put to the Spanish giants and that everyone at Old Trafford has told Madrid that there will be no deal.

    Marca are now ready to move on and believe that Van der Vaart will now be signed to bolster Bernd Schuster's attacking options after he agreed personal terms with the club.

    Hamburg are prepared to negotiate and a deal could be done in a few days, the paper continues, which would mean that Ronaldo's possible move could be on hold for a while longer.

    Hmmm.

    VDV is a top player but..

    VDV, Midget, Gago, Guti.

    Seems like an unbalanced midfield, without any width at all.
    TM
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    Post by TM Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:50 pm

    Real Madrid have offered 20 million euros (£15.9 million) to sign Hamburg midfielder Rafael van der Vaart for five seasons, according to Spanish sports daily Marca.

    More StoriesBlatter: Ronaldo is a slave
    Real Madrid team page
    The report comes one day after rival sports daily AS reported that the Spanish champions' cross-town rivals Atletico Madrid had offered 15 million euros (£11.9 million) for the 25-year-old Dutch international.

    Real Madrid and the Dutch player are in "total" agreement over the transfer, Marca reported without citing sources.

    Last week Hamburg's new coach, Dutchman Martin Jol, said he was counting on the midfielder for next season, which gets under way in mid-August.

    Van der Vaart, who joined Hamburg in 2005 and has a contract until 2010, has said that he would like to play in Spain.

    "Spain is my preference because my mother Lolita is Spanish," he told Focus magazine in January.

    The player wanted to join Spanish side Valencia last season but the management of the German team refused to give the move the green light.
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    Post by Axeslammer Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:54 pm

    If Real buy VDV I'll officially have to support them Wink

    Best player in the world, if you do get him : well done Ale
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    Post by TM Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:55 pm

    For 20m€ aswell Biggrin, but it still doesnt solve our RW problem.


    Hold on:

    According to sources in Italy, Inter Milan have given up all hope of signing Porto’s Ricardo Quaresma after failing to agree a transfer fee.

    Despite all the rumours and counter-rumours that seem to accompany every big transfer nowadays, it is widely accepted that Inter had lined up Quaresma as Luis Figo's long term replacement at San Siro.

    The Nerazzurri have been in negotiations to sign the skilful winger for quite some time now, and it was even, wrongly, reported a week or so ago that the transfer had been completed.

    However, it seems that all hope of the transfer going through has ended, as sources in Italy claim that due to Porto’s excessive price demands, Inter have given up on their chase for Quaresma.

    This comes as a bit of a blow to new coach Jose Mourinho, who is looking to sign two wide players so he can implement his favourite 4-3-3 formation.

    He does look likely to sign one winger though in the form of Roma’s Amantino Mancini, with reports in the peninsula claiming that the transfer will be completed by the end of today.


    20m for VDV, 35M for RQ ok

    ------------Casillas

    Ramos----Pepe---Cannavaro----Marcelo

    ---------------Gago

    ----------Midget---VDV

    Robben------Ruud------RQ


    Depending on a lot of if's and but's.. But looks good ok
    TM
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    Post by TM Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:14 pm

    Daniel Parejo is weighing up his options at Real Madrid.

    The teenage midfielder has offers from Getafe and Racing Santander on the table and has already rejected a £10 million move to Arsenal as he doesn't want to leave Spain. Spurs and QPR have also had contact with Parejo's representatives.


    Parejo knows a strong season way from Real can help establish his credentials and is favouring Getafe, which had Real pair Esteban Granero and Ruben de la Red on their books last season.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Espanyol are ready to reunite the Callejon brothers.

    After snapping up Jose from Real Madrid a fortnight ago, AS says brother Juanmi is also in Espanyol's sights.


    Like Jose, Juanmi is an attacker and has already rejected offers from Real Zaragoza and Osasuna sine the end of the season.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Real Madrid sports chief Pedja Mijatovic insists they're not trying to find a buyer for Julio Baptista.

    "Julio is a player of Real Madrid, he is happy here and the technical committee has met with him to assure him he is wanted," said Mijatovic.


    "If we were to get a bid from Roma, we all would evaluate it together. We, the agent and Julio himself."

    Doh
    Torrente
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    Post by Torrente Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:31 pm

    @Jaime

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think Robinho should be an "untouchable" and I think he has shown enough in 3 seasons not to be sold. I really fear that if we sell him now, he will become a superstar in his next team and we'll be kicking ourselves for selling him. I could be wrong but only time will tell.

    Also, from what I understand Schuster's 4-3-3 from last season had more to do with our lack of wingers, but this season he intends to implement a classic 4-4-2. However, if we do sign Van Der Vaart, it may be the case that Schuster will stick with his 4-3-3. Can't see how Gago/Guti/Sneijder/VDV could ever work in a 4-4-2 formation.
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    Post by fcb Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:34 pm

    Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

    Not only have we missed out on Van Der Vaart, he's gone to Madrid of all places. And we got fucking Hleb. The only consolation is that they've overpaid a bit for him, and is a strange signing considering their current midfield options.

    But still, I am heartbroken Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad
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    Post by TM Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:34 pm

    Overpaid? Laugh

    You paid £12m for Hleb and we're paying £15m for VDV Doh
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    Post by Machiavel Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:40 pm

    Sneijder & VDV in the same team again .. let the fun begin.
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    Post by fcb Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:57 pm

    TM wrote:Overpaid? Laugh

    You paid £12m for Hleb and we're paying £15m for VDV Doh

    Considering he's available for 1.5m euros next summer, anything above 12 to (at most) 15m euros is indeed overpaying. I doubt he's earning massive wages at Hamburg, and he already said his first preference is Spain...so you had all those factors working for you.

    Typical trend of every summer, Madrid overpay for incoming players, while Barcelona are underpaid for outgoing ones.
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    Post by TM Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:01 pm

    But Barca amongst others will be after him next season.
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    Post by The-Frank-Tavern Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:03 pm

    16th July the league draw is on
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    Post by Jaime Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:14 pm

    Torrente wrote:@Jaime

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think Robinho should be an "untouchable" and I think he has shown enough in 3 seasons not to be sold. I really fear that if we sell him now, he will become a superstar in his next team and we'll be kicking ourselves for selling him. I could be wrong but only time will tell.

    Also, from what I understand Schuster's 4-3-3 from last season had more to do with our lack of wingers, but this season he intends to implement a classic 4-4-2. However, if we do sign Van Der Vaart, it may be the case that Schuster will stick with his 4-3-3. Can't see how Gago/Guti/Sneijder/VDV could ever work in a 4-4-2 formation.

    If we sell him, he could go on to be great. But that doesn't mean if we keep him he will go on to be great by default. Somtimes things don't work out. Like Cambiasso for example. He was never great for us. But he's gone on to be quite good for Inter. If he had stayed would he have ever reached the same level? Who knows. It's impossible to say.

    I can't f*cking believe we are signing van der Vaart. What the f*ck do we need ANOTHER mediapunta? We're definitlely not playing 4-4-2 with him. And Granero and De la Red are definitely not going to have any opportunities. Grr


    Last edited by Jaime on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Machiavel Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:15 pm

    Hamburg midfielder Rafael van der Vaart claims to have been surprised by reports that he is agreed to sign a five-year contract with Real Madrid.

    The Spanish media reported on Thursday that a 20million euros deal had been agreed and the Holland midfielder's move to the Madrid giants is imminent.

    However, Van der Vaart, who is set to begin pre-season training with Hamburg on Friday, insists Marca's report was the first he had heard about it.

    "Gosh! I have read about it and now have to get a bit more information," he told the Bild newspaper.

    "I don't want to say any more about it at the time being."

    Earlier this week Van der Vaart pledged his future to HSV but claimed he could be tempted away by "only a really big club".

    New Hamburg coach Martin Jol previously admitted it would be hard to keep hold of the 25-year-old if the right club were to make a big offer.

    "If a club like Barcelona, Real Madrid or Internazionale come in, then I cannot say he is staying," Jol said recently.

    Hamburg's director of sport, Dietmar Beiersdorfer, also insisted they have had no contact from Real - or any other club - regarding Van der Vaart.

    "I have still not heard anything, but it is obvious: You will not get the player without having to get in touch," Beiersdorfer told Kicker.

    "That's not happening. Yesterday, it was Atletico, Real today and tomorrow? I'm not so nervous that I run to the fax every hour."
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    Post by golsud Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:16 pm

    Jaime wrote:
    Torrente wrote:@Jaime

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think Robinho should be an "untouchable" and I think he has shown enough in 3 seasons not to be sold. I really fear that if we sell him now, he will become a superstar in his next team and we'll be kicking ourselves for selling him. I could be wrong but only time will tell.

    Also, from what I understand Schuster's 4-3-3 from last season had more to do with our lack of wingers, but this season he intends to implement a classic 4-4-2. However, if we do sign Van Der Vaart, it may be the case that Schuster will stick with his 4-3-3. Can't see how Gago/Guti/Sneijder/VDV could ever work in a 4-4-2 formation.

    If we sell him, he could go on to be great. But that doesn't mean if we keep him he will go on to be great by default. Somtimes things don't work out. Like Cambiasso for example. He was never great for us. But he's gone on to be quite good for Inter. If he had stayed would he have ever reached the same level? Who knows. It's impossible to say.

    I can't f*cking believe we are signing van der Vaart. What the f*ck do we need ANOTHER mediapunta?

    Agree. Especially when you have GUTI SELECCION!.
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:16 pm

    There is still hope cheers
    Jaime
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    Post by Jaime Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:17 pm

    But it's funny, AS say that VDV is going to Atletico.
    Jaime
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    Post by Jaime Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:18 pm

    Pablo García deja de pertenecer a la disciplina del Real Madrid

    El Real Madrid C.F. y Pablo García han llegado a un acuerdo para rescindir el contrato del futbolista uruguayo, quedando así desvinculado de la entidad blanca. El Real Madrid quiere agradecer al jugador los servicios prestados al Club y le desea los mejores éxitos deportivos.

    Pablo Gabriel García Pérez (Uruguay, 1977) llegó al Real Madrid en la temporada 2005-06, procedente del Osasuna. Su llegada al Real Madrid de Luxemburgo coincidió con la contratación de otro jugador uruguayo, Diogo. Dos internacionales que seguían la estela marcada por el legendario José Emilio Santamaría, que dejó una marca imborrable en la rica historia del Club entre las temporadas 1957 y 1966.

    En su única temporada en el Real Madrid, Pablo García encontró mucha competencia por la calidad de la plantilla, pero tuvo oportunidad de lucir sus clásicas cualidades: su carácter luchador y su gran personalidad, sellos indiscutibles dentro del terreno de juego. Al término de la campaña fue cedido al Celta de Vigo. En la temporada 2007-08 militó en las filas del Real Murcia, donde disputó 21 partidos de Liga.

    Pablo García comenzó su carrera profesional en las filas del Montevideo Wanderens, con apenas 19 años. Llegó al fútbol europeo de la mano del Atlético de Madrid. También ha jugado en el Peñarol, Milán y Venecia, antes de recalar en el Osasuna, club desde el que llegó al Real Madrid. Con la selección uruguaya consiguió la cuarta posición en la Copa de América 2007 disputada en Venezuela.

    http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/es/1202739129779/noticia/ComunicadoOficial/COMUNICADO_OFICIAL_2008-07-10.htm
    Jaime
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    Post by Jaime Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:33 pm

    golsud wrote:
    Jaime wrote:
    Torrente wrote:@Jaime

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I think Robinho should be an "untouchable" and I think he has shown enough in 3 seasons not to be sold. I really fear that if we sell him now, he will become a superstar in his next team and we'll be kicking ourselves for selling him. I could be wrong but only time will tell.

    Also, from what I understand Schuster's 4-3-3 from last season had more to do with our lack of wingers, but this season he intends to implement a classic 4-4-2. However, if we do sign Van Der Vaart, it may be the case that Schuster will stick with his 4-3-3. Can't see how Gago/Guti/Sneijder/VDV could ever work in a 4-4-2 formation.

    If we sell him, he could go on to be great. But that doesn't mean if we keep him he will go on to be great by default. Somtimes things don't work out. Like Cambiasso for example. He was never great for us. But he's gone on to be quite good for Inter. If he had stayed would he have ever reached the same level? Who knows. It's impossible to say.

    I can't f*cking believe we are signing van der Vaart. What the f*ck do we need ANOTHER mediapunta?

    Agree. Especially when you have GUTI SELECCION!.

    BiggrinAle
    Axeslammer
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    Post by Axeslammer Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:03 pm

    Jaime wrote:
    I can't f*cking believe we are signing van der Vaart. What the f*ck do we need ANOTHER mediapunta? We're definitlely not playing 4-4-2 with him.

    Real usually don't know what player's best positions are, maybe you've got it right in this case....

    VDV is at his best as a free roaming second striker, second best as a number 10 (attacking playmaker) and thirdly he'll still do well in any other role on midfield.

    If you play 4-4-2 with Ruud and VDV as strikers you might be doing very well...

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