Is Lennon REALLY just a pace merchant with no end product?

The Real White Pele wrote:@LSR,

Tell me about this Jesus Navas: I've heard about him but yet to see him play? Is he the real deal you think?

Apparently he has some psychological illness. Like severe home-sickness. He does indeed appear to be the real deal though.

l r d wrote:

COTR wrote:

S4P wrote:SAF had one good crop 15 years ago Agooner. People still refer to that.

I still think that was more due to the youth scheme rather than Fergie (Becks and co joined United at about 10 years old, just before Fergie took over) so whether or not you put the credit down to the youth scheme or Fergie is down to opinion.

He still got the best out of them, but imo, West Ham Youth > Man Utd Youth and Wenger > Fergie with young talents.

plus buying two of the worlds best young talents for about 40 million and 'nurturing them' is hardly overly impressive

how did you know cotr would reply to an anti fergue comment.

look at ronaldo reyes
brought more talent through than anybody. wenger steals other peoples talented kids

how is it anti-Fergie?

All I said was that he had an excellent youth group come through (the Beckham era), and any one else that has come through in the last 15 years has been bought (Ronaldo, Rooney etc).

Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

COTR wrote:

Brian3-5-2 wrote:Lennon is getting better that is obvious. I hope he can keep growing at this rate England will have a class winger again...I like to see Jol giving him some time on the left I'm sure it was to test Ferreira. Giving the Lennon the chance and experiance playing both sides is a good idea wingers have a habbit of fading out of a game this way he can at least be busy disturbing the keeping the back line on edge with his speed.

for england's sake it was good to see mc'claren and venables in the crowd with lennon and king performing so well... Also another plus point was mc claren getting to catch a few of lampard's attempted passes and shots

Clearly tired after being the best player on the park against Barca

l r d wrote:

COTR wrote:

S4P wrote:SAF had one good crop 15 years ago Agooner. People still refer to that.

I still think that was more due to the youth scheme rather than Fergie (Becks and co joined United at about 10 years old, just before Fergie took over) so whether or not you put the credit down to the youth scheme or Fergie is down to opinion.

He still got the best out of them, but imo, West Ham Youth > Man Utd Youth and Wenger > Fergie with young talents.

plus buying two of the worlds best young talents for about 40 million and 'nurturing them' is hardly overly impressive

how did you know cotr would reply to an anti fergue comment.

look at ronaldo reyes
brought more talent through than anybody. wenger steals other peoples talented kids

As Obispo was refering to.....Sounds Dodgy...

who did wenger bring through cole....rest is all bought aswell

l r d wrote:who did wenger bring through cole....rest is all bought aswell

What about Hoyte and Stuart Taylor... *cough*

Brian3-5-2 wrote:

Brian3-5-2 wrote:Lennon is getting better that is obvious. I hope he can keep growing at this rate England will have a class winger again...I like to see Jol giving him some time on the left I'm sure it was to test Ferreira. Giving Lennon the chance and experiance playing both sides is a good idea wingers have a habbit of fading out of a game this way he can at least be busy disturbing and keeping the back line on edge with his speed.

the pace and energy of the spurs midfield today is something england can achieve with

lennon...gerrard..hargreaves...cole

cole may however be on the bench for most the this season the way things are going.

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

Obispo wrote:

The Real White Pele wrote:@LSR,

Tell me about this Jesus Navas: I've heard about him but yet to see him play? Is he the real deal you think?

Apparently he has some psychological illness. Like severe home-sickness. He does indeed appear to be the real deal though.

still hasn't improved since i first saw him 2 seasons ago. That's true for most spanish talents; torres, joaquin, reyes etc

Yes he's a quality player but won't make it in the EPL.

lennon> navas

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

isn't this what all clubs do though.. most youngsters are stolen off other clubs at some point in their careers.

I think the difference between Wenger and SAF is the coaching side, Wenger obviously has had an impact enormously on the kids he has had on the coaching side, however i believe the mental side is more important and Fergie knows how to get his young players in the correct mental frame, where Wenger couldn't control players like Anelka SAF unleashed Cantona, man management is so crucial at the level and SAF is possibly one of the very best man managers.

COTR wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

isn't this what all clubs do though.. most youngsters are stolen off other clubs at some point in their careers.

Exactly West Ham take the credit for Defoe despite being trained at Charlton at a young age. Same with Rio when he was at Millwall.

Football Genius wrote:I think the difference between Wenger and SAF is the coaching side, Wenger obviously has had an impact enormously on the kids he has had on the coaching side, however i believe the mental side is more important and Fergie knows how to get his young players in the correct mental frame, where Wenger couldn't control players like Anelka SAF unleashed Cantona, man management is so crucial at the level and SAF is possibly one of the very best man managers.

maybe it's just the fact that he scares them... much like mourinho which therefore gets a lot more respect from the players and they don't have as easy a life as they perhaps get under the more laid back management of wenger

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

Football Genius wrote:I think the difference between Wenger and SAF is the coaching side, Wenger obviously has had an impact enormously on the kids he has had on the coaching side, however i believe the mental side is more important and Fergie knows how to get his young players in the correct mental frame, where Wenger couldn't control players like Anelka SAF unleashed Cantona, man management is so crucial at the level and SAF is possibly one of the very best man managers.

Was that the Cantona who was banned for a season after the most disgraceful act in English football.

Anelka was a trouble child that no one could control, even at Madrid he was a rebel.

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

It's not his fault English players are crap.

Cesc-Fab wrote:

Football Genius wrote:I think the difference between Wenger and SAF is the coaching side, Wenger obviously has had an impact enormously on the kids he has had on the coaching side, however i believe the mental side is more important and Fergie knows how to get his young players in the correct mental frame, where Wenger couldn't control players like Anelka SAF unleashed Cantona, man management is so crucial at the level and SAF is possibly one of the very best man managers.

Was that the Cantona who was banned for a season after the most disgraceful act in English football.

Anelka was a trouble child that no one could control, even at Madrid he was a rebel.

Cantona also drove Man Utd to the double,

Your point about Anelka, well simply serves to back up my point, very few managers can control some of the most extreme players and channel their behaviour positively SAF is however one of the few that can...

Football Genius wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

Football Genius wrote:I think the difference between Wenger and SAF is the coaching side, Wenger obviously has had an impact enormously on the kids he has had on the coaching side, however i believe the mental side is more important and Fergie knows how to get his young players in the correct mental frame, where Wenger couldn't control players like Anelka SAF unleashed Cantona, man management is so crucial at the level and SAF is possibly one of the very best man managers.

Was that the Cantona who was banned for a season after the most disgraceful act in English football.

Anelka was a trouble child that no one could control, even at Madrid he was a rebel.

Cantona also drove Man Utd to the double,

Your point about Anelka, well simply serves to back up my point, very few managers can control some of the most extreme players and channel their behaviour positively SAF is however one of the few that can...

SAF managed to drive out loads of players because he didn't see eye to eye with them: Beckham, Stam, RVN...

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

It's not his fault English players are crap.

I like to think it is There is many talented young kids in islington, but arsenal dont care for them, they rather steal emerging talents from other teams

l r d wrote:

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

It's not his fault English players are crap.

I like to think it is There is many talented young kids in islington, but arsenal dont care for them, they rather steal emerging talents from other teams

Well duh. Why spend 10 million on Pennant when you can steal Cesc for free.

It's common sense to me.

I think there is a simple reason for Wenger not playing English players. Most of the poncy southerners are crap at football.

i think most people have a problem with Wenger taking young players from other countries. im guessing the Arsenal reserve team is made up of a lot of foreign players.

what happens to the young foreign players that Wenger brings over to Arsenal(England) that don't make it? i bet there is a few, but we never hear about them.

what if young players weren't allowed to move clubs in another country, until they were the age of 18?

Batman wrote:i think most people have a problem with Wenger taking young players from other countries. im guessing the Arsenal reserve team is made up of a lot of foreign players.

what happens to the young foreign players that Wenger brings over to Arsenal(England) that don't make it? i bet there is a few, but we never hear about them.

what if young players weren't allowed to move clubs in another country, until they were the age of 18?

That would be shit, we wouldn't have our national team anymore.

I bet if Wenger watched Hard Candy he'd think twice about his youth policy.

Football Genius wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

Football Genius wrote:I think the difference between Wenger and SAF is the coaching side, Wenger obviously has had an impact enormously on the kids he has had on the coaching side, however i believe the mental side is more important and Fergie knows how to get his young players in the correct mental frame, where Wenger couldn't control players like Anelka SAF unleashed Cantona, man management is so crucial at the level and SAF is possibly one of the very best man managers.

Was that the Cantona who was banned for a season after the most disgraceful act in English football.

Anelka was a trouble child that no one could control, even at Madrid he was a rebel.

Cantona also drove Man Utd to the double,

Your point about Anelka, well simply serves to back up my point, very few managers can control some of the most extreme players and channel their behaviour positively SAF is however one of the few that can...

Anelka fired us to the double in 98.

Looking at it, if Anelka behaved the same way to Fergie as he did to Arsene - He would have received a similar fate to that of Stam and Beckham.

Wenger could have easily kept Anelka, as Anelka was still young he may have matured in a settled environment like van Persie who was anotehr handful as a teen. The fact is we sold him because the offer was too good to turn down.

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

It's not his fault English players are crap.

I like to think it is There is many talented young kids in islington, but arsenal dont care for them, they rather steal emerging talents from other teams

Well duh. Why spend 10 million on Pennant when you can steal Cesc for free.

It's common sense to me.

I think there is a simple reason for Wenger not playing English players. Most of the poncy southerners are crap at football.

why spend 10 mill on pennant when he is already in your squad but he let him go for i think nothing, then liverpool spend 6 mill on him. maybe if he was french he could of stayed.
southerners are the majority of the top footballers in england

l r d wrote:

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

It's not his fault English players are crap.

I like to think it is There is many talented young kids in islington, but arsenal dont care for them, they rather steal emerging talents from other teams

Well duh. Why spend 10 million on Pennant when you can steal Cesc for free.

It's common sense to me.

I think there is a simple reason for Wenger not playing English players. Most of the poncy southerners are crap at football.

why spend 10 mill on pennant when he is already in your squad but he let him go for i think nothing, then liverpool spend 6 mill on him. maybe if he was french he could of stayed.
southerners are the majority of the top footballers in england

Foreigners are the majority of top footballers in England. + SCOUSERS.
Which decent southerners are there?

Ferdinand- Dopey from the seven dwarves.
Terry - Hahaha
Lampard - overrated fat pie boy
King - is actually pretty good.

About it really. But the main reason why Wenger buys French is because France = 2 WC finals and one Euro in eight years.
England = Fuck all.

Batman wrote:i think most people have a problem with Wenger taking young players from other countries. im guessing the Arsenal reserve team is made up of a lot of foreign players.

It is a conbination of foreign youths and English youths.

Batman wrote:what happens to the young foreign players that Wenger brings over to Arsenal(England) that don't make it? i bet there is a few, but we never hear about them.

They usually still have a good footballing career, take Moritz Volz for example who is doing well at Fulham. Every club has young foriegn players that don't make it like Neumayr at Utd.

Batman wrote:what if young players weren't allowed to move clubs in another country, until they were the age of 18?

Sound a fair proposal but would never happen due to it being used in other disciplines in life.

In the Fifpro Award two of the five nominies (Messi and Cesc) moved to a foreign country at a very young age.

l r d wrote:

theflyingfrenchman wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:

l r d wrote:

Cesc-Fab wrote:Wenger takes raw talents like Cesc, Alenka and Toure and develops them into great players.

Rooney could hardly be described as a raw talent, he was almost the finished article at 18.

usually he steals a really talented kid, and he turns out good. it's normal maybe he spots them early better than others.

So you knew of Anelka, Cesc and Toure before there Arsenal moves

i knew of toure yes. many clubs wanted cesc he was at barca ffs. anelka no but im sure it's similar story. bringing through own players just cole got a real chance, id say hes almost destroyed more careers than made in this sense

It's not his fault English players are crap.

I like to think it is There is many talented young kids in islington, but arsenal dont care for them, they rather steal emerging talents from other teams

Not true Ryan Smith was a local boy and was seen as a real gem. It is hardly our fault that we have five top internationals that play his position.

Arsene does not have an obligation to English talent.