Lampard shut your fucking mouth

I think Ballack is a better player than Lampard in his overall game,

but Lampard is better than an "average" midfield player. He had a horrible WC, but equally played very well in Euro2004, has played well in the CL for Chelssea, played in 2 semi finals,

I think he has proved himself pretty well. Problem I feel is that this season he believed all the hype around him and became complacent-

Lampard's attribute for success has been his hard work. Being voted 2nd player in the World cant have done much else than inflate his ego.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) a poor WC will be the kick up the arse he needed. So far this season he has already looked twice the player he was in Germany.

But, definitely a GREAT goalscoring midfielder, but not WC

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:And what is it that Ballack has done exactly that Lampard hasn't?

Been outstanding at a World Cup.

when?

02 he was good but this year he was average...

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:And what is it that Ballack has done exactly that Lampard hasn't?

Been outstanding at a World Cup.

But Ballack was far from Outstanding this year's World Cup. He was good, but great? I doubt even the German fans would say he had been. Klose was outstanding. Lahm was outstanding. Ballack wasnt I dont think.

2002 yes.

lampard scored 3 goals euro 2004 means not so much i guess.
you cant call lampard shit then klose world class in the same sentence

l r d wrote:
you cant call lampard shit then klose world class in the same sentence

You can, you just did.

Yeh, Lamps would good at Euro 2004.

He has also been a much better player in the CL than Ballack has.

Tweedledum wrote:Yeh, Lamps would good at Euro 2004.

He has also been a much better player in the CL than Ballack has.

lampard was ordianry in euro04 in the most important matches failing to retain possession throughout

Euro 2004 = Ballack voted into the team of the tournament even after Germanys poor showing. Lampard? nah...don't think so.

Best Goalscoring midfield player in the World = Ballack.

World Player of the year awards = voted for by coaches who probably get to watch 3 or 4 games a year because they actually coach football teams, so they can't spend their saturdays watching other games. Bullshit award and a publicity stunt.

Klose = Costa Rica and Sweden? How about against Argentina? How about 10 World Cup goals in 2 World Cups? How about the Golden Boot winner? He scored as many goals as the entire England team in the 2006 World Cup. Klose = proven at every level!

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:Yeh, Lamps would good at Euro 2004.

He has also been a much better player in the CL than Ballack has.

lampard was ordianry in euro04 in the most important matches failing to retain possession throughout

its true, but klose been ordinary scored a few goals 2002 same for lampard 04 yet 1 is shit 1 world class

Tweedledum wrote:Yeh, Lamps would good at Euro 2004.

He has also been a much better player in the CL than Ballack has.

don't agree at all.... he had a few good games the year we won but that's about it IMO.... it's hard to analyse lampard because he very rarely takes a game by the scruff of the neck or controls a match then suddenly he may pop up and get you a goal and people think he has had a great game... he was non existent against us and barca on the big occasions... can't remember but did ballack not have a great campaign with leverkusen??? also wasn't a bad goal against milan?? last year...

Isar Truppe wrote: Klose = proven at every level!

except ECL where imho he has struggled.

The Real White Pele wrote:I think Ballack is a better player than Lampard in his overall game,

but Lampard is better than an "average" midfield player. He had a horrible WC, but equally played very well in Euro2004, has played well in the CL for Chelssea, played in 2 semi finals,

I think he has proved himself pretty well. Problem I feel is that this season he believed all the hype around him and became complacent-

Lampard's attribute for success has been his hard work. Being voted 2nd player in the World cant have done much else than inflate his ego.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) a poor WC will be the kick up the arse he needed. So far this season he has already looked twice the player he was in Germany.

But, definitely a GREAT goalscoring midfielder, but not WC

its a question of consistancy...when on form both are definately WC as far as im concerned..but as hes aged ballacks had a problem with consistancy...for bayern hes been very drab in a LOT of their games over the last few seasons.

id just say lets see how he does this season at chelsea and THEN most english football fans can give an educated assessment of his talents...

Isar Truppe wrote:Euro 2004 = Ballack voted into the team of the tournament even after Germanys poor showing. Lampard? nah...don't think so.

Best Goalscoring midfield player in the World = Ballack.

World Player of the year awards = voted for by coaches who probably get to watch 3 or 4 games a year because they actually coach football teams, so they can't spend their saturdays watching other games. Bullshit award and a publicity stunt.

Klose = Costa Rica and Sweden? How about against Argentina? How about 10 World Cup goals in 2 World Cups? How about the Golden Boot winner? He scored as many goals as the entire England team in the 2006 World Cup. Klose = proven at every level!

What have ballacks scoring stats been for the last two seasons?

I'm sure Lamaprds have been better

dont panic! wrote:

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:And what is it that Ballack has done exactly that Lampard hasn't?

Been outstanding at a World Cup.

when?

02 he was good but this year he was average...

2002 is still A WORLD CUP. He was excellent that year.

2006 he wasn't out of this world but still miles better than Lampard.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:Yeh, Lamps would good at Euro 2004.

He has also been a much better player in the CL than Ballack has.

lampard was ordianry in euro04 in the most important matches failing to retain possession throughout

I agree, if it wasn't for his goal in extra time he would of been one of the worst starters from either side against Portugal.

Isar Truppe wrote:Euro 2004 = Ballack voted into the team of the tournament even after Germanys poor showing. Lampard? nah...don't think so.

Best Goalscoring midfield player in the World = Ballack.

World Player of the year awards = voted for by coaches who probably get to watch 3 or 4 games a year because they actually coach football teams, so they can't spend their saturdays watching other games. Bullshit award and a publicity stunt.

Klose = Costa Rica and Sweden? How about against Argentina? How about 10 World Cup goals in 2 World Cups? How about the Golden Boot winner? He scored as many goals as the entire England team in the 2006 World Cup. Klose = proven at every level!

Ballack in the tournament team of 2004? Where? Voted by who? And if so, which I doubt, the people who voted in that team needed their head tested. Lampard scored more goals in that tournament than the whole German team put together. Plus 1.

And he was hardly ordinary- the only game he played ordinary in was againt Portugal- the same could be said of all the team. He was immense against Croatia, played well against France and was strong vs Switzerland.

Ordinary my arse.

2005/2006 FC Bayern München P:26 G:14

2004/2005 FC Bayern München P:27 G:13

How many of Lampards goals were penalties? Ballack did not take Bayerns penalties.

International level 31 goals in around 68 games.

And Lampard outscored Ballack in 2004, Gerrard outscored him in 2006.

Pray tell me how Ballack is the best goal scoring Midfielder in the World when he has scored 1 goal in 2 international comps, and both lampard and gerrard outscored him domestically and in the CL ?

The Real White Pele wrote:And he was hardly ordinary- the only game he played ordinary in was againt Portugal- the same could be said of all the team. He was immense against Croatia, played well against France and was strong vs Switzerland.

Ordinary my arse.

bullsh¡t as i said in england two most dioffciult games portugal and france he was awful we never retained possession and on both ocassions this cost us victory

Isar Truppe wrote:2005/2006 FC Bayern München P:26 G:14

2004/2005 FC Bayern München P:27 G:13

How many of Lampards goals were penalties? Ballack did not take Bayerns penalties.

International level 31 goals in around 68 games.

yeah but you play in a shite league

The Real White Pele wrote:And Lampard outscored Ballack in 2004, Gerrard outscored him in 2006.

Pray tell me how Ballack is the best goal scoring Midfielder in the World when he has scored 1 goal in 2 international comps, and both lampard and gerrard outscored him domestically and in the CL ?

You can't seriously question this, just compare the international stats of both Lampard and Gerrard to Ballack. Ballack has a better goal scoring ratio for the Mannschaft than Ronaldinho for Brazil for God's sake.

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

The Real White Pele wrote:And he was hardly ordinary- the only game he played ordinary in was againt Portugal- the same could be said of all the team. He was immense against Croatia, played well against France and was strong vs Switzerland.

Ordinary my arse.

bullsh¡t as i said in england two most dioffciult games portugal and france he was awful we never retained possession and on both ocassions this cost us victory

it's the old goals vrs performance debate... lamps very rarely produces a performance but he does get goals....

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

The Real White Pele wrote:And he was hardly ordinary- the only game he played ordinary in was againt Portugal- the same could be said of all the team. He was immense against Croatia, played well against France and was strong vs Switzerland.

Ordinary my arse.

bullsh¡t as i said in england two most dioffciult games portugal and france he was awful we never retained possession and on both ocassions this cost us victory

It was Gerrard's backpass against France that cost us victory. And Beckham's penalty miss, when England would have been 2-0 up with 5 minutes to go. How can Lampard be blamed for these costly errors??

Yeh I agree Lampard isnt the best at holding possession, but we saw the difference when Hargreaves played behind him v Greece- he was really not wasteful at all. So how this can be attributed to Lampard directly is beyond me...

to say he was ordinary in Euro 2004 is a joke. 3 goals in 4 games isnt ordinary. And the only game where England were really poor in possesion was againt Portugal with 10 men. They were not outplayed in any of the other games

Isar Truppe wrote:Euro 2004 = Ballack voted into the team of the tournament even after Germanys poor showing. Lampard? nah...don't think so....ok

Best Goalscoring midfield player in the World = Ballack...wrong..thats just german hype

World Player of the year awards = voted for by coaches who probably get to watch 3 or 4 games a year because they actually coach football teams, so they can't spend their saturdays watching other games. Bullshit award and a publicity stunt....thought so..it will stay that way until a german wins it again no doubt

Klose = Costa Rica and Sweden? How about against Argentina? How about 10 World Cup goals in 2 World Cups? How about the Golden Boot winner? He scored as many goals as the entire England team in the 2006 World Cup. Klose = proven at every level!

a header against argentina from a good cross...probably the only way he was going to score as he really is a good header of the ball....but what else did he do?...nothing...he gets praised as being a complete striker...but he ONLY performs in this way at a high level against weaker sides...maybe this will change.

10 goals in 2 world cups...yep...a hat trick against saudi arabia and goals against ireland and cameroon...then as soon as the later stages came and the better opponents...NONE!!

same in 06 really..lots against weak teams...VERY few against good teams..even..as ive already said...to the extent
of not having ONE attempt at goal against italy...

lampard has proven himself at international level by the way...forgotten how he took bayern apart a while ago with ballack in the side?..a good euros too...

cotr the most important aspect for a midfielder is to retain possession and create chances we had rooney and owen to score the fooking goals if he gets goals thats an added bonus but it shouldn´t be the sole reason for having him in the team

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:

The Real White Pele wrote:And he was hardly ordinary- the only game he played ordinary in was againt Portugal- the same could be said of all the team. He was immense against Croatia, played well against France and was strong vs Switzerland.

Ordinary my arse.

bullsh¡t as i said in england two most dioffciult games portugal and france he was awful we never retained possession and on both ocassions this cost us victory

Although to his defence he wasn't the only one.

I do hope people watched Ballacks performances in 2004 and not just his teams failings. He played very well.

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

dont panic! wrote:

Sir Parks Lives wrote:

Tweedledum wrote:And what is it that Ballack has done exactly that Lampard hasn't?

Been outstanding at a World Cup.

when?

02 he was good but this year he was average...

2002 is still A WORLD CUP. He was excellent that year.

2006 he wasn't out of this world but still miles better than Lampard.

absolutely..but some people seem to be of the opinion that ballack always plays at a far better level than lampard which is simply not true...again..theres plenty of bayern fans who are glad hes gone...

Gerrard outscored him???? ha ha ha ha.....you are obviously counting CL qualifying games from last season.....what a joke.

And please tell me how many Lampard scored last season excluding penalties?

And then tell me who out of these 3 players was not responsible for his teams exit at the world cup.

was it a)Lumphard b)Ballack or c)Gerrard?

I'll save you all the time.....the answer is Ballack. The rest all missed their penalties and choked when it mattered most.

Ballack >>>>>>> the rest

blutgraetsche wrote:

The Real White Pele wrote:And Lampard outscored Ballack in 2004, Gerrard outscored him in 2006.

Pray tell me how Ballack is the best goal scoring Midfielder in the World when he has scored 1 goal in 2 international comps, and both lampard and gerrard outscored him domestically and in the CL ?

You can't seriously question this, just compare the international stats of both Lampard and Gerrard to Ballack. Ballack has a better goal scoring ratio for the Mannschaft than Ronaldinho for Brazil for God's sake.

you must be a crouch fan then?

The-Frank-Tavern wrote:cotr the most important aspect for a midfielder is to retain possession and create chances we had rooney and owen to score the fooking goals if he gets goals thats an added bonus but it shouldn´t be the sole reason for having him in the team

Thats where Lampard falls down. At Chelsea in previous seasons he had the whole team set up for him to score goals, Drogba in front, Maka and Essien/Tiago working hard behind him to win the ball and two excellent wingers between J Cole, Robben and Duff.

He tries to carry this on for England and the team isn't set up for this with Rooney, Gerrard and a striker like Owen who doesn't win the knockdowns ala Drogba.