Brazil Vs Argentina official match thread

Chap wrote:Dodgy Offside?

kas wrote:Brazil beat Argentina tactically in the 1st half, and Argentina lost their calm and their attacking play didn't show up.

Torrente wrote:When it comes to Argentina - Brasil, I will always bet for Brasil. Even in moments like these, where all the odds seem to be stacked up against them, Brasil generally comes on top when they play Argentina.

In recent memory people will remember the 3-0, but a few years back Brasil also spanked Argentina 4-1 in the Confederations Cup final. They also beat Argentina in the Copa final last time with their under-23 team. I know they were outplayed for large parts of the game, but that was the least one would expect.

Brasil will go out for blood today. Even if Argentinians hate Brasilians more than Brasilians hate Argentinians, the Samba boys will be fired up enough to snatch it away. Even Vagner Love could have a good game.

There's nothing more pleasing to the Brasilians than beating Argentina or watching Argentina fail in something. The Brasilians know how much damage a win tonight will cause Argentina. Without their 2 biggest stars, an awful coach, and Vagner Love leading the attack, a win would be the equivalent of bitch-slapping them back to Buenos Aires.

kas wrote:Bluenine also pointed out one of the keys of the match earlier. Argentina have wasted *every* single free kick that they have won...they must have easily got at least 10 if not more. All of them were hit into the middle and cleared away by Brazil, and what made it worse was Milito and Ayala had to go up to win headers, and that made it even easier for Brazil's counter attacks to succeed.

L.r.d wrote:Riquelme just like v Arsenal and v Germany he decided to choke on the big occasion

mongrel hawk wrote:@Calidad,

I agree that Kaká and Ronaldinho MUST play together. A coach that thinks they can't do it should give up his career. One of them should play as a forward, while the other as a playmaker. the mistake was to have both in midfield playing deep and not coming back to tackle. we also need a strong midfield behind them to back them up, a good striker, and Robinho as a reserve for second halves. We can't have the 3 of them.

Robinho, as expected, has done nothing. We had to count on brave players like Júlio Baptista, Máicon and Daniel up to now.

Where are the acrobatics?

If Ronaldinho was playing in his place (sorry to say this... I'm not biased towards Spanish teams; indeed, I have no preferences at all in Europe... for me European clubs mean nothing), we would be much better right now.

Calidad wrote:

bluenine wrote:But I do hope he plays one of them at a time... both of them together just don't work!!

Calidad wrote:We all hope that Dunga doesn't persist with this team, and to be honest I don't think he can anyway. I can't see him leaving Kaka & Ronaldinho out.

Unacceptable really; you can't have the two best players in the world not playing. He has to build his team around them & hopefully Robinho as well.

No doubt todo will come in and say Robinho hasn't done much today against a good defence, but once again he has been positive and linked play well. And I believe he played a part in both goals (certainly the 2nd) Much more effective than Tevez so far, who has been anonymous.

L.r.d wrote:Riquelme just like v Arsenal and v Germany he decided to choke on the big occasion

COTR wrote:

L.r.d wrote:Riquelme just like v Arsenal and v Germany he decided to choke on the big occasion

it's more a matter of the coach getting it wrong

riquelme barely touched the ball to be able to choke, apart from his stunning free kicks of course

Calidad wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:@Calidad,

I agree that Kaká and Ronaldinho MUST play together. A coach that thinks they can't do it should give up his career. One of them should play as a forward, while the other as a playmaker. the mistake was to have both in midfield playing deep and not coming back to tackle. we also need a strong midfield behind them to back them up, a good striker, and Robinho as a reserve for second halves. We can't have the 3 of them.

Robinho, as expected, has done nothing. We had to count on brave players like Júlio Baptista, Máicon and Daniel up to now.

Where are the acrobatics?

If Ronaldinho was playing in his place (sorry to say this... I'm not biased towards Spanish teams; indeed, I have no preferences at all in Europe... for me European clubs mean nothing), we would be much better right now.

Calidad wrote:

bluenine wrote:But I do hope he plays one of them at a time... both of them together just don't work!!

Calidad wrote:We all hope that Dunga doesn't persist with this team, and to be honest I don't think he can anyway. I can't see him leaving Kaka & Ronaldinho out.

Unacceptable really; you can't have the two best players in the world not playing. He has to build his team around them & hopefully Robinho as well.

No doubt todo will come in and say Robinho hasn't done much today against a good defence, but once again he has been positive and linked play well. And I believe he played a part in both goals (certainly the 2nd) Much more effective than Tevez so far, who has been anonymous.

You say that but what did Baptisa & Alvez do other than the goals? Baptista's was a great goal, Alvez took his goal well. They didn't actually create any opportunities for others to score however. Alvez is incredibly overrated and a nice finish doesn't change that.

You say Robinho done nothing, but he played a part in all three goals (40 yard pass to Vager Love for the third) and again was effective in creating interplay. Compared with similar players like Messi, Tevez & Aimar he was more effective. He didn't score, but then he had no chance to. People would have said Baptista didn't play well if he didn't score. He lost the ball a lot still because of a poor touch.

As a defensive unit Brasil were fantastic and congrats. Juan & Alex were top.

Would have been nice to see the Argies win though.

sheva7 wrote:Where are Alves critics?

I can descriube the argentinian squad and its players in one word.

Superbia

http://www.ole.com.ar/diario/2007/07/15/tapapapel.html

sheva7 wrote:Where are Alves critics?

I can descriube the argentinian squad and its players in one word.

Superbia

http://www.ole.com.ar/diario/2007/07/15/tapapapel.html

Puro wrote:

L.r.d wrote:Riquelme just like v Arsenal and v Germany he decided to choke on the big occasion

I think Brasil just rose to the ocassion more than anything. They always do when they feel threatened.

A lot of people think this is Brasil "B", I've alway called it Brasil "A" minus Ronaldinho and Kaká, and probably minus Ronaldo as well if he regains his world class form. This was no Brasil "B" whatsoever. Alex is better than Lucio.

mongrel hawk wrote:Robinho played alright, but far from being MOTM.

our best players IMO:

Juan (one of the best defenders in the world), Alex, Máicon, Josué, and Daniel Alves.

we won this Copa because Dunga dropped Diego and Elano, and because he played the 3 DMs system. It would have been more beautiful if he had Afonso in place of Love, and Anderson in place of Baptista IMO.

I hope he'll keep the 3 DMs system with Kaká and Ronaldinho playing together alongside a good striker, and Robinho as a reserve.

that's all.

Calidad wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:@Calidad,

I agree that Kaká and Ronaldinho MUST play together. A coach that thinks they can't do it should give up his career. One of them should play as a forward, while the other as a playmaker. the mistake was to have both in midfield playing deep and not coming back to tackle. we also need a strong midfield behind them to back them up, a good striker, and Robinho as a reserve for second halves. We can't have the 3 of them.

Robinho, as expected, has done nothing. We had to count on brave players like Júlio Baptista, Máicon and Daniel up to now.

Where are the acrobatics?

If Ronaldinho was playing in his place (sorry to say this... I'm not biased towards Spanish teams; indeed, I have no preferences at all in Europe... for me European clubs mean nothing), we would be much better right now.

Calidad wrote:

bluenine wrote:But I do hope he plays one of them at a time... both of them together just don't work!!

Calidad wrote:We all hope that Dunga doesn't persist with this team, and to be honest I don't think he can anyway. I can't see him leaving Kaka & Ronaldinho out.

Unacceptable really; you can't have the two best players in the world not playing. He has to build his team around them & hopefully Robinho as well.

No doubt todo will come in and say Robinho hasn't done much today against a good defence, but once again he has been positive and linked play well. And I believe he played a part in both goals (certainly the 2nd) Much more effective than Tevez so far, who has been anonymous.

You say that but what did Baptisa & Alvez do other than the goals? Baptista's was a great goal, Alvez took his goal well. They didn't actually create any opportunities for others to score however. Alvez is incredibly overrated and a nice finish doesn't change that.

You say Robinho done nothing, but he played a part in all three goals (40 yard pass to Vager Love for the third) and again was effective in creating interplay. Compared with similar players like Messi, Tevez & Aimar he was more effective. He didn't score, but then he had no chance to. People would have said Baptista didn't play well if he didn't score. He lost the ball a lot still because of a poor touch.

As a defensive unit Brasil were fantastic and congrats. Juan & Alex were top.

Would have been nice to see the Argies win though.

Calidad wrote:

sheva7 wrote:Where are Alves critics?

I can descriube the argentinian squad and its players in one word.

Superbia

http://www.ole.com.ar/diario/2007/07/15/tapapapel.html

I'm here. And I've just been criticising him.

Maicon is far superior. Alvez had a nice finish for the goal. He done little else of note. I noticed he had a great oppotunity to put in Baptista or Robinho, but as usual nothing came of it and the cross was blocked (when he had plenty of time to pick out a pass) - he is a pace merchant who spends half his time fouling and the other half chasing back because he's lost possession.

Maicon, I've been very impressed with. Had an indifferent start to the tournament, but he's been impressive during the last two games.

COTR wrote:
not having the two best players in the world makes a bit of a difference though puro

but maybe it helped in a way. ronny and kaka's lesser work ethic may have disrupted what he wanted to achieve from this performance


argentina just have a remarkable ability to lose all shape in their team when it matters most

it also displayed why im happy we signed torres over tevez as he is more of a striker to tevez's attacking midfielder/forward role