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    John Terry dropped as England captain

    Allez les rouges
    Allez les rouges


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    Post by Allez les rouges Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:48 pm

    debaser wrote:Capello would be best to just say Parker for this tournament as he's first choice in the team at the min, uncontroversial and respected. Then whichever Tom, Dick or 'arry is Capello's successor will have chance to change captain if they like & go from there.

    The very last thing I'd do is give it to Hart - not because I don't like/rate him, I'm a big fan - but because he is our only option in goal. Do we really want to saddle him with a poisoned chalice like the captaincy ffs?!

    I don't quite get what you mean here. For me the fact he's undisputed in his position is a point in his favour, not against?

    Parker is all very well as a short-term solution, and yes the captaincy isn't that important, but even if he's a shoo-in for the midfield right now, how long for? After the Euro you might want to go with Wilshere, Cleverley and Mcwhatsisname, or vassever. Parker is unlikely to play in Brazil. (Of course in an ideal world this would necessitate a post-Capello situation, so it is mere hypothetical chitchat.)

    You need to get beyond all this "poisoned chalice" nonsense. Hart is your new Shilton. Me 'as been saying this for a while.
    debaser
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    Post by debaser Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:10 pm

    Allez les rouges wrote:
    debaser wrote:Capello would be best to just say Parker for this tournament as he's first choice in the team at the min, uncontroversial and respected. Then whichever Tom, Dick or 'arry is Capello's successor will have chance to change captain if they like & go from there.

    The very last thing I'd do is give it to Hart - not because I don't like/rate him, I'm a big fan - but because he is our only option in goal. Do we really want to saddle him with a poisoned chalice like the captaincy ffs?!

    I don't quite get what you mean here. For me the fact he's undisputed in his position is a point in his favour, not against?

    Parker is all very well as a short-term solution, and yes the captaincy isn't that important, but even if he's a shoo-in for the midfield right now, how long for? After the Euro you might want to go with Wilshere, Cleverley and Mcwhatsisname, or vassever. Parker is unlikely to play in Brazil. (Of course in an ideal world this would necessitate a post-Capello situation, so it is mere hypothetical chitchat.)

    You need to get beyond all this "poisoned chalice" nonsense. Hart is your new Shilton. Me 'as been saying this for a while.

    I'm thinking along the lines that if you make Hart captain and he happens to make a mistake in his first game as captain or do something questionable in his private life, it will be magnified 100x. Hart is a pretty together character from all I know, but being England GK has enough potential to mess you up without adding England captain into the equation.

    Poisoned chalice may be a bit theatrical & silly concept, but the media in this country exists and it does like to break people who play for/manage England - all the moreso, the more high-profile they are.

    PS, post-Capello is not at all hypothetical. Can't see any way he'll be staying after Euros, esp after the split with FA over this Terry thing. And now 'arry's been found innocent, there's probably no stopping him as new manager.
    Bashmachkin
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    Post by Bashmachkin Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:51 pm

    I agree with the way the FA have handled Terry and disagree with Capello's response to their handling. Certainly I'd happily see the England squad without Terry: though the number of thugs, cheats, villains who have played and still play a significant part in the England squad makes it feel as though the England national team is in itself poisonous and best forsaken, still there are players I like who are and who should be part of the squad, I don't think the situation is impossible to salvage from a moral or even from a footballing perspective, and the less John Terry about the better. Nevertheless, I accept that there aren't grounds for removing Terry from the squad prior to his trial, but I think there is a good case for taking the captaincy from him simply on the basis of the sort of coverage that would dominate all footballing discussion if he were to remain as captain; and I suppose at least in this case I don't have a problem with someone being removed from an important but arguably ceremonial role whilst they are facing criminal proceedings. Capello's public response to the FA's decision seems senseless, seems only to make his job more difficult.

    All of which is to say that I broadly agree, in this instance, with Gordon Taylor.

    If Capello and the FA do part ways, is Kevin Keegan the man to lead England through Euro 2012? I know this particular match-up has been hotly debated over the extent of the internet and elsewhere too, but I'm firmly of the camp that maintains Newcastle 95/96 > Spain 2008 and 2010, for instance.

    I'm not sure, Pele, that there is no reason why Phil Jones won't become as good or better than Coloccini. The comparison with David Luiz seems coherent to me because both he and Jones seem like talented players with the ball, but they can be headless playing their supposed role of centre-back. Jones is considerably younger and I think less headless than Luiz; but he's not nearly as intelligent or accomplished defensively as Coloccini - he doesn't read the game as well, use his body as effectively, time his challenges and interceptions in the same way - and the fact that he's far from Coloccini in this respect at this moment in time just as much suggests he'll never reach his level. Jones's youth, his physical qualities, his talent with the ball, the fact that he plays for Manchester United - these things suggest he should have a good career, but I don't think it is guaranteed that he'll become a consummate defender.

    Is it worth giving the England captaincy to Andy Carroll? Should the England captaincy not make a player, rather than risk breaking one?

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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:15 pm

    Parker can play the gatekeeper for the team for now there will be changes coming keep it simple. Hart is also a good choice but who knows what the next manager will look for, Hart is young and after the euros he will be the first name on the team sheet we hope it will be an easy decision, unless we play well and Parker is the captain changing things could get harder it shouldn't but us English fans can get screwy.
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    Post by Cesc Soler Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:26 pm

    Capello has resigned
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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:27 pm

    what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Sheffield gunner


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    Post by Sheffield gunner Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:28 pm

    Channel 4 News have just mentioned it. Shocked
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:30 pm

    Wow this is news
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:30 pm

    Lampard back in the team when Uncle 'Arry comes in cheers
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:30 pm

    the Man has stuck behind Terry it seems to the end.
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:30 pm

    COTR wrote:Lampard back in the team when Uncle 'Arry comes in cheers
    I hope not
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    Post by debaser Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:31 pm

    Crazy

    Thought he would at least want to see out the tournament.

    Can't believe he's quit over John Fucking Terry lol!
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:33 pm

    debaser wrote:Crazy

    Thought he would at least want to see out the tournament.

    Can't believe he's quit over John Fucking Terry lol!

    A point of principle over a man that won't know the meaning of the word. Laughing

    Oh well, it's no real loss and it'd be nice if somehow he can take Terry with him. I'm just surprised he'd give up on such a big pay-off.
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:34 pm

    Must of felt bad enough to leave over his comments
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:35 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:
    debaser wrote:Crazy

    Thought he would at least want to see out the tournament.

    Can't believe he's quit over John Fucking Terry lol!

    A point of principle over a man that won't know the meaning of the word. Laughing

    Oh well, it's no real loss and it'd be nice if somehow he can take Terry with him. I'm just surprised he'd give up on such a big pay-off.

    Shows the man has Class
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    Post by debaser Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:35 pm

    Sheffield gunner wrote:
    debaser wrote:Crazy

    Thought he would at least want to see out the tournament.

    Can't believe he's quit over John Fucking Terry lol!

    A point of principle over a man that won't know the meaning of the word. Laughing

    Oh well, it's no real loss and it'd be nice if somehow he can take Terry with him. I'm just surprised he'd give up on such a big pay-off.

    What pay-off? Didn't his contract expire after the Euros anyway?
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:36 pm

    Listening to 5live.......
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:37 pm

    Ah yeah, I suppose so. Always just used to the FA having to pay out a load and then over-pay the new man coming into the job.

    If only the players on the pitch could offer as much entertainment as the soap opera off it.
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    Post by debaser Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:40 pm

    I guess the question now is whether 'arry will abandon Spurs at this time of the season, or if they look at short-term option just for the next few months & the tournament?

    If the latter, I guess it'd be an ex-England-manager (is Venables still alive?), or someone like Hiddink who is available now..
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:40 pm

    Wow, no offense to anyone, but this whole saga is really fucking stupid. A coach sacked a few months before a major tournament because he gave an interview where he didn't agree with the FA's decision, which was arguable anyway. What a massive farce.
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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:43 pm

    fcb wrote:Wow, no offense to anyone, but this whole saga is really fucking stupid. A coach sacked a few months before a major tournament because he gave an interview where he didn't agree with the FA's decision, which was arguable anyway. What a massive farce.
    He Resigned
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    Post by Jaime Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:43 pm

    Shocker this. But there is another person who might be available this summer:

    John Terry dropped as England captain - Page 10 Josemourinho

    I hear he loves England.

    Whistle
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    Post by Sheffield gunner Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:44 pm

    I assume Pearce will be the interim coach. I wonder if they go for Redknapp if they'll try to negotiate some sort of job share until the end of the season because Levy drives a hard bargain at the best of times and I can't see him giving his manager up mid-season.

    It's such a farcical situation, but one that most of the parties involved fully deserve. The FA, Capello, some of the squad, the English press... it's such an unnecessary mess.
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    Post by worms. Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:45 pm

    Bashmachkin wrote:I agree with the way the FA have handled Terry and disagree with Capello's response to their handling. Certainly I'd happily see the England squad without Terry: though the number of thugs, cheats, villains who have played and still play a significant part in the England squad makes it feel as though the England national team is in itself poisonous and best forsaken, still there are players I like who are and who should be part of the squad, I don't think the situation is impossible to salvage from a moral or even from a footballing perspective, and the less John Terry about the better. Nevertheless, I accept that there aren't grounds for removing Terry from the squad prior to his trial, but I think there is a good case for taking the captaincy from him simply on the basis of the sort of coverage that would dominate all footballing discussion if he were to remain as captain; and I suppose at least in this case I don't have a problem with someone being removed from an important but arguably ceremonial role whilst they are facing criminal proceedings. Capello's public response to the FA's decision seems senseless, seems only to make his job more difficult.

    All of which is to say that I broadly agree, in this instance, with Gordon Taylor.

    If Capello and the FA do part ways, is Kevin Keegan the man to lead England through Euro 2012? I know this particular match-up has been hotly debated over the extent of the internet and elsewhere too, but I'm firmly of the camp that maintains Newcastle 95/96 > Spain 2008 and 2010, for instance.

    I'm not sure, Pele, that there is no reason why Phil Jones won't become as good or better than Coloccini. The comparison with David Luiz seems coherent to me because both he and Jones seem like talented players with the ball, but they can be headless playing their supposed role of centre-back. Jones is considerably younger and I think less headless than Luiz; but he's not nearly as intelligent or accomplished defensively as Coloccini - he doesn't read the game as well, use his body as effectively, time his challenges and interceptions in the same way - and the fact that he's far from Coloccini in this respect at this moment in time just as much suggests he'll never reach his level. Jones's youth, his physical qualities, his talent with the ball, the fact that he plays for Manchester United - these things suggest he should have a good career, but I don't think it is guaranteed that he'll become a consummate defender.

    Is it worth giving the England captaincy to Andy Carroll? Should the England captaincy not make a player, rather than risk breaking one?


    Spot on.
    COTR
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    Post by COTR Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:45 pm

    John Terry dropped as England captain - Page 10 Young-roy-hodgson-switzerland-football


    Nah Jaime, here is your interim manager. He is due his big break.
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    Post by Jaime Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:46 pm

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YOU HAVE TO TAKE MOURINHO!!!!! bounce
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:47 pm

    Brian2468 wrote:
    fcb wrote:Wow, no offense to anyone, but this whole saga is really fucking stupid. A coach sacked a few months before a major tournament because he gave an interview where he didn't agree with the FA's decision, which was arguable anyway. What a massive farce.
    He Resigned

    Sorry, yes, typed in a hurry. But still, it's all like one big comedy. Sheffield Gunner is right - the FA, Capello, some of the players, and mainly the media, have all made an unnecessary drama of this situation.
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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:49 pm

    Jaime wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! YOU HAVE TO TAKE MOURINHO!!!!! bounce
    Wonder what kind of team he would pick..
    fcb
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    Post by fcb Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:50 pm

    Twitter never lets you down: "Capello...not the first Italian to abandon a sinking ship"
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    Brian2468


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    Post by Brian2468 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:50 pm

    fcb wrote:
    Brian2468 wrote:
    fcb wrote:Wow, no offense to anyone, but this whole saga is really fucking stupid. A coach sacked a few months before a major tournament because he gave an interview where he didn't agree with the FA's decision, which was arguable anyway. What a massive farce.
    He Resigned

    Sorry, yes, typed in a hurry. But still, it's all like one big comedy. Sheffield Gunner is right - the FA, Capello, some of the players, and mainly the media, have all made an unnecessary drama of this situation.

    True it looks just as bad for everyone concerned what a bunch of turtle necks.... Very Happy

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