WC2010 Group G - Brazil, Portugal, Ivory Coast, North Korea

vickery's view on this game BEFORE the game bellow. excelent analysis. and it makes me think: everybody has figured out how brazil works. if this proves enough to stop brazil, there's no escape, brazil are out.


Now to a quick word on Brazil's fascinating opener against North Korea on Tuesday. Dunga's men will outgun their opponents technically and physically, and should win comfortably.

But - and this is the intriguing element - they have tended to struggle against defensive teams who do not play into the hands of their counter-attack.

Often in this situation they have broken the deadlock from a set piece. A favourite is the corner which swings out before it reaches the near post - one of their giants will attack the space and flick the ball on, either at goal or towards the far post for a team-mate.

When they played Ireland in a friendly a few months ago it was clear that rival coach Giovanni Trapattoni had done his homework.

At Brazil's corners, Ireland placed two men blocking the space, preventing the Brazilians from getting a run.

It worked well, and it will be interesting to see if North Korea, and Brazil's other opponents, have picked up on it.

LOL, the word Dunga is Trendding on Twitter right now

Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

mongrel hawk wrote:vickery's view on this game BEFORE the game bellow. excelent analysis. and it makes me think: everybody has figured out how brazil works. if this proves enough to stop brazil, there's no escape, brazil are out.

Are you still confident about brazilian chances, Todo?

Brazil. Will. NOT. Get. Knocked. Out. In. The. First. Round!


That's just preposterous! Jeez, you're worse than Italian fans!

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

mongrel hawk wrote:vickery's view on this game BEFORE the game bellow. excelent analysis. and it makes me think: everybody has figured out how brazil works. if this proves enough to stop brazil, there's no escape, brazil are out.

Are you still confident about brazilian chances, Todo?

not as much as before, I have to admit. but argentina has been my favourite to win since they qualified, brazil being my second favourite.

L r dd wrote:Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

he is working now though...

Barrilete wrote:

L r dd wrote:Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

he is working now though...

laughing in real life at your avatar Thats a great pic Barrilete

blutgraetsche wrote:Brazil. Will. NOT. Get. Knocked. Out. In. The. First. Round!


That's just preposterous! Jeez, you're worse than Italian fans!

may God listen to you, my son. may God listen... wow, I forgot He's coaching our biggest rivals.

mongrel hawk wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:Brazil. Will. NOT. Get. Knocked. Out. In. The. First. Round!


That's just preposterous! Jeez, you're worse than Italian fans!

may God listen to you, my son. may God listen... wow, I forgot He's coaching our biggest rivals.

mongrel hawk wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:Brazil. Will. NOT. Get. Knocked. Out. In. The. First. Round!


That's just preposterous! Jeez, you're worse than Italian fans!

may God listen to you, my son. may God listen... wow, I forgot He's coaching our biggest rivals.

Nice Todo

Barrilete wrote:

L r dd wrote:Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

he is working now though...

He's not really one of the great players of the world

L r dd wrote:

Barrilete wrote:

L r dd wrote:Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

he is working now though...

He's not really one of the great players of the world

No, he is far away from being as good as Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, etc, but tell me how many offensive players did better than him so far?

Perhaps only Messi, Podolski and Ozil...

Robinho was good tonight. Let's see how he will perform against better teams.

Ronaldo, Drogba and many other so called "big players" have been rather underwhelming so far. Robinho was good. It's not the CV, but the actual performance at the WC that counts. Ronaldo's 124312421 goals for Real Madrid don't help Portugal one bit.

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

L r dd wrote:

Barrilete wrote:

L r dd wrote:Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

he is working now though...

He's not really one of the great players of the world

No, he is far away from being as good as Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, etc, but tell me how many offensive players did better than him so far?

Perhaps only Messi, Podolski and Ozil...

Robinho was good tonight. Let's see how he will perform against better teams.

Well i know he usually plays well for Brazil. But the fact is people were talking about Dunga. But if you look at the Brazil team the players are simply not great. The best two attacking ones are hit and miss most of the time one couldnt even work out at a relative small club. I think brazil will go far and the team is good but the critism of Dunga is shortsighted.

Robinho mostly is very good against bad teams and gets a little invisible against good ones anyway. I thought Park also was very good. Ronaldo did alright his team is shit. Missed Tevez match. Rooney was terrible but he'll improve.

blutgraetsche wrote:Ronaldo, Drogba and many other so called "big players" have been rather underwhelming so far. Robinho was good. It's not the CV, but the actual performance at the WC that counts. Ronaldo's 124312421 goals for Real Madrid don't help Portugal one bit.

Why would you mention Drogba who didn't get that much time and im not even sure he is in a good enough condition. Think people are being too harsh. Im quite sure the trend will be less towards individiual performances just like in the last WC06. Only Zidane managed to shine and he was certainly an exception to the rule. I don't expect any player to consistently play well past the group stages. It will be thight and exciting and enjoyable. Allthough it wouldn't hurt to have one team that will really attack go past the group stage. Chile could be just that team so I really hope they make it.

It wasn't surprising to see Brazil not score that much. This has been the rule under Dunga. Brazil were always going to win and despite N.Korea's goal it wasn't close. If this was going to be a goalfest I expected it to be so only if N.Korea were crappy at set pieces. Most of the big teams except Spain will play on the counter but Brazil simply does it that much better then everybody else so I expect them to have better results in some big games then against minnows.

Khadrim wrote:

Juligen wrote:

blutgraetsche wrote:Early days todo. Brazil gave about 50% today, lazy fuckers didn't seem to care, nobody bothered to move off the ball.

Brazil will win their group confortably.

are you serious? you ahve a real hard time agaisnt defensive teams. If Ivory Coast play like North Korea we wont score agaisnt them.

I actually think we can go out in this first round

and Dunga was happy??????? he was smiling after the game during the interview, he thought it was a great result.

You don't think Portugal and IC won't have as much trouble breaking down Korea. I even fancy an upset against Portugal.

Unless one of Ronaldo's long range shots goes in, I can't see Portugal being able to break NK down if they play like they did last night. And with Jong Tae running at Paulo Ferreira, we may get some more Korean goals.

Brazil will *definitely* go through. Portugal's game suits their tactics much better than NK. Last night Brazil had to take the initiative and they were uncomfortable doing that because of the lack of creative players in their team. But when the other team has most of the possession, does nothing with it, and allows Brazil to make quick counters, that's when Dunga's team is at its best.

All of you guys are missing the key point. It was the persisitent, strong-minded, disciplined, mysterious NK that made Brazil look a bit awkward, just pulling off two goal.

P.S. If NK finisher had made best of only one of the counters, Brazil would have been lost the first round game.

I have been taking NK as a favorite since they took on amazing performanc in the quafilication maches. It's shame that China even didn't make it to go to SA. There are lots of difference between the only two socialist nations in Asia, we are nowhere near NK. In a word, we are corrupted in all sectors. Shittttttttttty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

North Koreans

CQ admitted he wanted to play a defensive game. Some players are pissed at his tactics. They know they could have played better.

Queiros says : "It's the first of 3 games and it would be an unnecessary risk to search for victory..."

According to newspaper "Record" he yelled at Coentrão for attacking too much.

One thing no one mentioned here was the fact one of the subs he used was the one who replaced Nani. A guy who was already on vaccation, trains few days with the team and gets used right away...

Nani said he's now fit so whats the story there at the moment? Surely it woulda been better keeping him and missing one game.

Lus,

On cq, Isn't it just the other way around ? In the first three games you are capable to take more risk because losing points is not directly deadly and a win would have secured you almost a second round.

It seems to be that loew and the dutch and the koreans are thinking this way. The rest just want to take as less risk as possible...

Especially if you take into account, what i also so before the tourney, that defenses are not well gelled at the moment so if you attack them they'll going to make errors.

Well, we saw that most of the goals were extremely defensive and organisational errors.

The attcker therfore "forces" luck.

L r dd wrote:Nani said he's now fit so whats the story there at the moment? Surely it woulda been better keeping him and missing one game.

Nani said, at his arrival at Lisbon, that he would be ok in 1 week. He then corrected this saying he ment "ok for everyday life, not for competition"...

I still think something is wrong with all this.

It does seem strange, the whole situation that Nani claims he is fit whereas the Portuguese bosses claim he is injured. Judging by the look of it they could have done with Nani. Portugal really needed to beat Ivory Coast to boost their chances of progressing. It is going t be down to Portugal and Ivory Coast to see who makes it out of World Cup Group G. One of them could need to get a result against Brazil, and that is where a player like Nani could have made a real difference.

Ricardo Wetzel wrote:Lus,

On cq, Isn't it just the other way around ? In the first three games you are capable to take more risk because losing points is not directly deadly and a win would have secured you almost a second round.

It seems to be that loew and the dutch and the koreans are thinking this way. The rest just want to take as less risk as possible...

Especially if you take into account, what i also so before the tourney, that defenses are not well gelled at the moment so if you attack them they'll going to make errors.

Well, we saw that most of the goals were extremely defensive and organisational errors.

The attcker therfore "forces" luck.

Agree, looks like everyone is affraid of everyone, except for the Dutch, S.Koreans and, well, Germany, but in this case i'll wait to see them against stronger opposition.

Don't take me wrong. IC is, with Ghana, the strongest african teams, but i just feel my team didn't do enough.
And i believe that it will be easyer for Brasil for the simple fact Drogba will play from start. When he plays, the team gains a dangerous player and attacks more, but also opens more space behind getting more vulnerable. Brasil will make good use of all that space.

UK_Andy wrote:It does seem strange, the whole situation that Nani claims he is fit whereas the Portuguese bosses claim he is injured. Judging by the look of it they could have done with Nani. Portugal really needed to beat Ivory Coast to boost their chances of progressing. It is going t be down to Portugal and Ivory Coast to see who makes it out of World Cup Group G. One of them could need to get a result against Brazil, and that is where a player like Nani could have made a real difference.

I believe he was sent home because of his indiscipline, not only because of his injury. And Coentrão risks the bench also.

We saw it already at the friendly against Cabo Verde. Those two were allways attacking while the others were a lot slower.
Nani can't play this deffensive game, doesn't like it, and probably said it loud in the dressing room.

You are 100% right. But now you are in a difficult posistion as well since IC is allowed to draw Brasil and to win against Korea.

IMO defensive play made it for you more trickier because IC is strong and will get more points in this competition!

Second, Is IC really that strong on the counter attack? I mean their conversion from defense to attack is not that fast. I guess you could have gained from that.

Now, I'm afraid Portugal "is going piss beside the toilet bowl" as we say in the Netherlands. Which is, i think, is a pity.

Ricardo Wetzel wrote:You are 100% right. But now you are in a difficult posistion as well since IC is allowed to draw Brasil and to win against Korea.

IMO defensive play made it for you more trickier because IC is strong and will get more points in this competition!

Second, Is IC really that strong on the counter attack? I mean their conversion from defense to attack is not that fast. I guess you could have gained from that.

Now, I'm afraid Portugal "is going piss beside the toilet bowl" as we say in the Netherlands. Which is, i think, is a pity.

It will depend on how we play NC. If it's anything other then a victory we're out. We do play well against attacking teams and strugle against defensive ones and normaly we would be abble to beat Brasil. Only difference is that Brasil plays more defensive, it's not an attacking one, with lot's of space back there as we would love to have.....

L r dd wrote:

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:

L r dd wrote:

Barrilete wrote:

L r dd wrote:Brazil just don't have many great players. I wouldn't blame Dunga. Robinho didn't work out at two teams and Kaka has been useless for awhile yet these are Brazil's best attacking players. Maicon is probably the third and he is RB. Brazil would still beat Spain or Holland.

he is working now though...

He's not really one of the great players of the world

No, he is far away from being as good as Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, etc, but tell me how many offensive players did better than him so far?

Perhaps only Messi, Podolski and Ozil...

Robinho was good tonight. Let's see how he will perform against better teams.

Well i know he usually plays well for Brazil. But the fact is people were talking about Dunga. But if you look at the Brazil team the players are simply not great. The best two attacking ones are hit and miss most of the time one couldnt even work out at a relative small club. I think brazil will go far and the team is good but the critism of Dunga is shortsighted.

Robinho mostly is very good against bad teams and gets a little invisible against good ones anyway. I thought Park also was very good. Ronaldo did alright his team is shit. Missed Tevez match. Rooney was terrible but he'll improve.

what do you mean? people are criticising him here exactly because he didn't call pato, ganso, neymar... instead he took julio baptista, grafiti, nilmar...

Thr group is still wild opened and Portugal and IC still have a chance of qualification. I mean for Portugal and IC to only win 2-1 against S.K is a good thing. They surely can do better and who knows they might tie their game against Brazil.